Couldn't echo this enough. I have close friends that are struggling every day, and they are some of the strongest, toughest men I know. I think we knew what you were getting to, but that's a dangerous line and it bears repeating.
PTSD/Suicide on Special Operations Forces members, doubts..
- Thread starter EliasBR
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It was a question (not a affirmative), since one member in this thread (who suffers from PTSD as he says) brought up this aspect, it was just a attempt to develop the discussion, it wasn't to become something problematic.
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That is part of and probably the major problem with the stigma behind PTSD and mental health in general. The thought that it is a "weakness", it's complete BS but attributes to a lot of guys still hiding or not accepting the truth.
Oh and if a Veteran admits he/she has PTSD, I wouldn't question it. ;)
Oh and if a Veteran admits he/she has PTSD, I wouldn't question it. ;)
I've already asked for a particular moderator to delete the thread since it was not received well from the community here, it's not that the subject is irrelevant, it's that the subject is a bit (or a lot) sensitive and some people didn't get what I was asking in the beginning of the topic.
My intentions were 100% good when I was asking it, and it would be stupid to provoke the group when I admire these warriors, I just hope that you guys understand it.
My intentions were 100% good when I was asking it, and it would be stupid to provoke the group when I admire these warriors, I just hope that you guys understand it.
It is a sensitive subject to discuss but it is a subject that NEEDS to be discussed. It's the only way for it to be accepted as an injury and to remove the stigma. Education is the only way.
So far this thread has not gone out of control, I'm keeping it open. Just be careful how you write things.
So far this thread has not gone out of control, I'm keeping it open. Just be careful how you write things.
I honestly don't think there is a difference between conventional and SOF and since only recently has comprehensive studies have started; we won't know the real answer for decades. Onset of PTSD is not easily identifiable and varies person to person.
HOLLiS
Verified Military
If "some people didn't get what I (you were) was asking in the beginning of the topic", maybe you need to explain it better. I may be thick as a brick, I do not understand what "My intentions were 100% good" means. What intentions? Why? <-- good is not a descriptor. Good for you may mean bad for me. Evasiveness is provoking.
Or maybe you need to reread it, since some people got what I was asking it the first time. Bad intentions = Open the topic to provoke; good intentions = open the topic to develop a healthy discussion with the purpose of obtaining information. Why = this a discussion forum to talk about matters involving SOF. I'm not evasive, I just don't know what answer you want to read.
Take care.
Thanks for the answer sir.
You need to rethink how you are posting on this forum. You say you have "respect for these warriors" but yet you are being what I would consider rude to one of our older members who is without a doubt the exact type of warrior you claim to respect.
You have been given some pretty good advice in this thread on how to proceed with your “personal interest questions” but yet you are failing to put two & two together here. Asking to have a thread locked after stirring the pot and then making posts like the one above to a senior member here, is by far not an attempt to have peaceful conversation about a very touchy topic.
I will leave you with this last little tid-bit, you are a new kid here, nobody knows you and nobody really cares what you think or otherwise have interest in. Some of us will entertain your questions and others will not, but when you start making posts that come off as rude, you can bet you will become very unwelcome here, very quick.
EliasBR Changed my mind, you obviously did not understand or take in anything that has been said to you. I suggest you take what JAB previously posted seriously. Your posts show your obvious immaturity and general lack of understanding when it comes to mental health and PTSD. I highly suggest you leave this topic alone, if you want to learn about it; there are plenty of resources out there. Use the fancy thing called google and sort yourself out. Consider this a final warning.
THREAD CLOSED.
THREAD CLOSED.
pardus
Verified Military
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- Sep 7, 2006
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- 10,534
PTSD is a hugely complicated and emotional subject as we can all see. It is something we simply don't know enough about and won't for years to come.
I agree with you 100% in this, for some people. However, Ive also seen people talk themselves into PTSD or supposed PTSD,
I'll quote one of these people, as heard before we arrived in theater "I wonder how bad my PTSD is going to be after this".
I struggle to say these people have normal mental robustness. These are people that would get PTSD if they went to war or stayed home on the couch. We all have our limits and lines in the sand, what shock and horrify some, others would shrug off or think insignificant.
Boiled down, my thoughts currently are that some people are mentally weak and get PTSD for things most wouldn't, some are normal (or strong) that experience traumatic experiences that simply overwhelm them.
Not everyone can run a marathon or bench press 300lb, they are weaker than those that can. That's not a bad thing (I can't do either), humans are just different with different abilities.
Just my .o2c
I agree with you 100% in this, for some people. However, Ive also seen people talk themselves into PTSD or supposed PTSD,
I'll quote one of these people, as heard before we arrived in theater "I wonder how bad my PTSD is going to be after this".
I struggle to say these people have normal mental robustness. These are people that would get PTSD if they went to war or stayed home on the couch. We all have our limits and lines in the sand, what shock and horrify some, others would shrug off or think insignificant.
Boiled down, my thoughts currently are that some people are mentally weak and get PTSD for things most wouldn't, some are normal (or strong) that experience traumatic experiences that simply overwhelm them.
Not everyone can run a marathon or bench press 300lb, they are weaker than those that can. That's not a bad thing (I can't do either), humans are just different with different abilities.
Just my .o2c
Ill do my best to explain my view on PTSD from my experience of dealing with it for over 20+ years.
I started developing or noticing something wasn't "right" just before I got out. And then after I got out, I was having a helluva time just dealing with simple things in life. I sought therapy with a civilian mental health clinic. It didn't take long before they diagnosed me with PTSD. This was way before the VA or the military or the Fed Govt even recognized it as an issue or illness/disability.
I will tell you, that for fact, different people will react differently from each other after a "traumatic" event. Meaning it will effect each person in a different way. Some people it will hardly affect at all, while the next person can get really fucked up from it. YOU NEVER KNOW.
Then after I got out and was living my life, I was involved in a couple of other "traumatic" events. Each event in my life wasn't really "bad" by themselves, but with each subsequent one, my symptoms got worse and compounded over time.
Even after the VA finally recognized it as a condition, I didn't pursue it as part of my disability until just a few years ago, as I was just getting worse and worse.
Aknowledging you have a problem is the hardest, first step one can take. There is no "cure". But you can learn how to live your life around it and how to live with it so it doesn't destroy your life or hurt the one's you love.
I have also learned through the years, that it has to be one of the most fraudulantly abused conditions in the VA.
It doesn't make a person "weak" if they can't sleep do to nightmares from a traumatic event. "weak" is a bs term to describe anyone with PTSD IMHO. The "weak" ones are the one's that ignore it and choose to let it destroy their lives and the ones around them. Even with PTSD, YOU HAVE A CHOICE to make your situation better.
I started developing or noticing something wasn't "right" just before I got out. And then after I got out, I was having a helluva time just dealing with simple things in life. I sought therapy with a civilian mental health clinic. It didn't take long before they diagnosed me with PTSD. This was way before the VA or the military or the Fed Govt even recognized it as an issue or illness/disability.
I will tell you, that for fact, different people will react differently from each other after a "traumatic" event. Meaning it will effect each person in a different way. Some people it will hardly affect at all, while the next person can get really fucked up from it. YOU NEVER KNOW.
Then after I got out and was living my life, I was involved in a couple of other "traumatic" events. Each event in my life wasn't really "bad" by themselves, but with each subsequent one, my symptoms got worse and compounded over time.
Even after the VA finally recognized it as a condition, I didn't pursue it as part of my disability until just a few years ago, as I was just getting worse and worse.
Aknowledging you have a problem is the hardest, first step one can take. There is no "cure". But you can learn how to live your life around it and how to live with it so it doesn't destroy your life or hurt the one's you love.
I have also learned through the years, that it has to be one of the most fraudulantly abused conditions in the VA.
It doesn't make a person "weak" if they can't sleep do to nightmares from a traumatic event. "weak" is a bs term to describe anyone with PTSD IMHO. The "weak" ones are the one's that ignore it and choose to let it destroy their lives and the ones around them. Even with PTSD, YOU HAVE A CHOICE to make your situation better.
I sincerely hope that this thread can stay on track and not get shut down over pettiness or someone's hurt feelings. I'm personally very interested in this subject, since it is not something that affected me or anyone I know well.
I think JAB might have been onto something with one of his earlier posts. Inasmuch as we can admit it when someone is stronger physically or mentally than we are, I don't think it's an insult to suggest that some people may be psychologically stronger than others. It doesn't mean those others are psychologically "weak" or "inferior," just that others are stronger in that particular area. I think the evidence for this is that two men can be in the exact same set of situations for the exact same period of time, yet one of them will develop PTSD and the other won't. What is the difference? Genes? The way they were raised? Differing levels of psychologocal stamina? I'm inclined to believe it might be all three, but if I had to pick one, it would be the latter. Again, it doesn't mean one of the two was "weak," it means that the other is "stronger" somehow.
I think JAB might have been onto something with one of his earlier posts. Inasmuch as we can admit it when someone is stronger physically or mentally than we are, I don't think it's an insult to suggest that some people may be psychologically stronger than others. It doesn't mean those others are psychologically "weak" or "inferior," just that others are stronger in that particular area. I think the evidence for this is that two men can be in the exact same set of situations for the exact same period of time, yet one of them will develop PTSD and the other won't. What is the difference? Genes? The way they were raised? Differing levels of psychologocal stamina? I'm inclined to believe it might be all three, but if I had to pick one, it would be the latter. Again, it doesn't mean one of the two was "weak," it means that the other is "stronger" somehow.
HOLLiS
Verified Military
Probably nothing to do with what we all think. Nothing about strength or weakness, how we were raised, etc....... there are a lot of things in life where the best answer is, "I don't know."
Too many variables that can mask this issue. What may seem strong is really weak, if one wants to use those terms. Like going into a battle, who gets hit, who gets KIA, who does not get a scratch when everyone else does. It may be nice, or maybe it is a human need to know and to especially to know be for hand. The toughest person may turn into a weak mouse at the first crack of gun fire, the person that everyone labeled a weak mouse, stands up to be the toughest person in the company........ why? Isn't that something we want to know, but will never know why.
PTSD as it was explained to me is when normal people are exposed to non-normal traumatic event (something like that). It becomes a issue later, because it has not been dealt with earlier. Right there is two variables, dealing with it, how ever one does closer to event can prevent or diminish the effects on the person later. Trying to deny what happen, being strong and ignoring what has happen and how it effected you, denial, etc............. will only make the situation more difficult later. It is the later, where the "P" comes into the meaning of the term, "Post".
The trauma needs to be dealt with sooner than later, that is what PTSD is about. Dealing with it later it becomes Post Traumatic Stress disorder.
Too many variables that can mask this issue. What may seem strong is really weak, if one wants to use those terms. Like going into a battle, who gets hit, who gets KIA, who does not get a scratch when everyone else does. It may be nice, or maybe it is a human need to know and to especially to know be for hand. The toughest person may turn into a weak mouse at the first crack of gun fire, the person that everyone labeled a weak mouse, stands up to be the toughest person in the company........ why? Isn't that something we want to know, but will never know why.
PTSD as it was explained to me is when normal people are exposed to non-normal traumatic event (something like that). It becomes a issue later, because it has not been dealt with earlier. Right there is two variables, dealing with it, how ever one does closer to event can prevent or diminish the effects on the person later. Trying to deny what happen, being strong and ignoring what has happen and how it effected you, denial, etc............. will only make the situation more difficult later. It is the later, where the "P" comes into the meaning of the term, "Post".
The trauma needs to be dealt with sooner than later, that is what PTSD is about. Dealing with it later it becomes Post Traumatic Stress disorder.
Awesome post, thank you LOOON. Working with recent OIF/OEF vets I don't completely agree that there is never a cure. Some of the guys that get help early on do see a complete extinguishing of symptoms. But it is good statement in that it shows that it is never to late to get help.
The other two paragraphs I quoted are 100% spot on. Again, thank you LOOON.
Reed
P.S. pardus the reason I disagreed with your post is that the individuals you described do NOT have PTSD, they have sandyvaginitus. This is a completely different dis-order caused by the lack of spine.
