Raid on President Trump's Home

Marauder06

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Starting a new thread on this out of the "Feds" one because I suspect this situation going to be a long and complex and I don't want to derail the general discussion on Federal law enforcement about this specific case.

Also, a lot of people are going to feel a lot of different ways about this. That's OK. What's not OK is acting like a jerk about it when you're expressing those feelings on the site. Please keep things civil.

We don't have mods anymore so I won't be able to remove individual posts, so if things get out of hand I'll have to delete the whole thread. Ad I really don't want to do that. This is a significant event in our country, with long-lasting repercussions, which I hope we can discuss in a reasonable manner.

This article sums up my thoughts on the matter pretty well. Looking forward to hearing yours.

excerpt:
I think the Democrats might have overreached with this one, though. While this will definitely excite the Democrats’ radical base, I think they may have gone to the Trump well one too many times to carry their political water. This action is going to create an enormous scandal that will energize Trump and his growing crowd of supporters and make him a martyr to them. As we saw over the course of history, from Jesus to George Floyd, martyrdom is a very useful thing for politics, politicians, and social movements.
 

Devildoc

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I am appalled, makes madder than hell. "If." If they only held all the politicians and .gov employees to the same standard. If he did something illegal, and they have evidence, let him shoulder the blame. But if what he did was no worse than a former presidential candidate's laptop, a current president's son's laptop, Sandy Berger's mishandling classified information, yadda yadda yadda, then why are you going all "SWAT-and raid" and guarding the entrance with ARs when you did not do that to everyone else?

Until something compelling or evidentiary comes out I think this is political and little else. The timing makes me skeptical, and way too many coincidences with other things going on.
 

Devildoc

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Starting a new thread on this out of the "Feds" one because I suspect this situation going to be a long and complex and I don't want to derail the general discussion on Federal law enforcement about this specific case.

Also, a lot of people are going to feel a lot of different ways about this. That's OK. What's not OK is acting like a jerk about it when you're expressing those feelings on the site. Please keep things civil.

We don't have mods anymore so I won't be able to remove individual posts, so if things get out of hand I'll have to delete the whole thread. Ad I really don't want to do that. This is a significant event in our country, with long-lasting repercussions, which I hope we can discuss in a reasonable manner.

This article sums up my thoughts on the matter pretty well. Looking forward to hearing yours.

RE: the article, I was talking recently to a republican never-Trumper, and even he is starting to say the democrats are psycho and acting like they have an axe to grind and Trump is not deserving of their 'treatment'.....
 

Gunz

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90 days to a midterm election that the democrats are afraid they’ll lose because everything is, well, pretty fucked up. So they’re in panic mode. They’re happy the USSC nixed Roe vs Wade because they need that as a rallying point. But the economy still sucks and people vote their pocketbooks. And then there’s Trump, their Baba Yaga, their bogeyman. So they’ve weaponized the bureaucracy to go after him. They’re going to fire every smoking gun they can find even if they have to conjure them up out of thin air.
 

Marauder06

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Not surprised by this at all. My feeling is they were always going to go full force after him to guarantee he doesn’t run again. They did this for the fence sitters to convince them Trump really is the great white evil
That's kind of what I'm thinking. Roe getting overturned was, IMO, the thing that might have helped save the Dems from a red flood in the mid-terms. However, that doesn't seem to be moving the needle the way a lot of people (including me) thought it would. The Jan 6 hearings also appear to be a bust. Literally the only thing left in their quiver is pushing the "Trump is bad" button.


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Also, I'm open to having my mind changed on this. Maybe there really is some super-sketchy, "this is really unique and no where near what others have done" things going on. But I doubt it.
 

AWP

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Maybe I'm dumb, maybe I'm jaded, or maybe I just don't care, but I look forward to seeing what the raid produced. What did the warrant say they thought they would find vs. what they actually found? What charges, if any, are brought?

I think Trump and his brand of authoritarianism are bad for America, bad for the Republican party, bad for the world to be frank. What I don't want to see is the guy get railroaded. This isn't just about Trump, as much as people would like you to think, the office of the president...ALL of them, is kind of at stake here. Of course, the anti-Trump crowd are bleating and cawing and practically dancing in the street because this is what they want, this is what they believe to be true. I believe if I just had a few hours with Crazy Kate Beckinsale I could get her on Team A-dub, but that doesn't make it REAL or viable or anything beyond a fever dream.

Until someone "shows me the money" I'll assume PT Barnum's ghost is selling tickets to the show.
 

Brill

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Maybe I'm dumb, maybe I'm jaded, or maybe I just don't care, but I look forward to seeing what the raid produced. What did the warrant say they thought they would find vs. what they actually found? What charges, if any, are brought?
You’re naive.

Go read the FISA warrant for Carter Page: the entire thing was fraudulent yet approved by a judge…and renewed 3 times by a judge.

Trump will be indicted for X. Take it to the bank.
 

Topkick

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I wouldnt put anything past these folks. They hate Trump and now he's ruining their chances at reelection to the swamp. Some of these Reps have either been drained, or, are getting or have been primaried simply because of their inability to the see the forrest. Their feelings are hurt, The DOJ is theirs, and they want some butt.
 

Cookie_

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I'm waiting to see what exactly this was about. The story about it just being over boxes of records from the National Archive really makes the actions taken by the FBI seem overblown.

There are a number of investigations Trump is facing, but it really doesn't seem like the trigger should be pulled on something like this unless the FBI director and DOJ leadership at large are 100% sure they're gonna find something of significance.


I think Trump and his brand of authoritarianism are bad for America, bad for the Republican party, bad for the world to be frank. What I don't want to see is the guy get railroaded.

Fully agree with this. A lot of people are disregarding the Jan 6th committee hearings as political theater (which is fair to an extent), but the one agreed upon fact is that we had a lame duck President who was attempting to prevent a lawful election from taking place, through knowingly dubious legal maneuvering and unverified/knowingly false fraud information.
People think they hate authoritarianism/fascism until the person in charge is on their team.

That doesn't mean you get to make him into a political prisoner. Doing that just ensures that the pendulum swings with even more momentum in the other direction.
If the pendulum keeps swinging more and more, we're only a few elections away from getting ourselves a Lukashenko, Bolsanoro, Putin, Maduro, etc. The sad thing is half of the voting population would support said leader.
 

Brill

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I'm waiting to see what exactly this was about. The story about it just being over boxes of records from the National Archive really makes the actions taken by the FBI seem overblown.

There are a number of investigations Trump is facing, but it really doesn't seem like the trigger should be pulled on something like this unless the FBI director and DOJ leadership at large are 100% sure they're gonna find something of significance.




Fully agree with this. A lot of people are disregarding the Jan 6th committee hearings as political theater (which is fair to an extent), but the one agreed upon fact is that we had a lame duck President who was attempting to prevent a lawful election from taking place, through knowingly dubious legal maneuvering and unverified/knowingly false fraud information.
People think they hate authoritarianism/fascism until the person in charge is on their team.

That doesn't mean you get to make him into a political prisoner. Doing that just ensures that the pendulum swings with even more momentum in the other direction.
If the pendulum keeps swinging more and more, we're only a few elections away from getting ourselves a Lukashenko, Bolsanoro, Putin, Maduro, etc. The sad thing is half of the voting population would support said leader.

The election took place in Nov. The J6 show trial was focused on actions taken by others with innuendo that “Trump did it all!” in Jan the following year to certify the results.

Precision here matters.

It’s sad that you appear to be casting judgement on your preconceived notions of half the voting population. It (the adversarial nature) the best thing about our politics as it requires each candidate to bring their best foot forward. If not, we’d have Sanders, Pocahontas, or Harris going after their political enemies.

I disagree that people hate authoritarians; Americans deep throated the shit out of any COVID decree and libs poured baby blood on themselves, begging to be governed harder.

”4 more years!” of this USG shitshow & you all yootz can have it.
 

TLDR20

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Maybe let’s see what the warrant was for and what they found.

Does everyone think that the threat of an armed standoff was outside the realm of possibility? Not with Trump, I don’t think that is why this was done that way, but with his supporters? The kind of people who might storm the capitol?
 
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Cookie_

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@Cookie_ I'm not arguing that the election was stolen, but polls show that nearly half of America does not believe Biden won. So, no, its not an agreed upon fact. Thats the only point I am making.

ETA I'll leave it at that. I dont want to take this thread down the wrong road.
Gotcha.

I'm talking specifically about The Eastman memos, which was the plan to have Pence refuse electors from a number of states so Trump could be declared President. This is after a number of audits in states failed to find any sort of fraud.

They even acknowledged that the legal theory likely wouldn't stand up if it made it to the Supreme Court, but they were hoping that wouldn't happen.

Anything else fraud wise definitely still has questions, so I understand your perspective there.


@Brill I think we are in agreement about authoritarianism.

I think that the majority of Americans would claim to not support an Authoritarian leader; I also think those same Americans would support it if that leader was of their political party.
 

Kaldak

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I'm sure he has the Area-51 alien files at the resort! That's why the heavy handed execution of the warrant.

I'm waiting to see what exactly this was about. The story about it just being over boxes of records from the National Archive really makes the actions taken by the FBI seem overblown.

In all seriousness, I am going to reserve judgements until we see the warrant, and what was actually found.
 

Brill

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This is after a number of audits in states failed to find any sort of fraud.
Demonstrably false: none of the cases were tried in 2020 but dismissed on procedural grounds. The cases that went forward, had a majority seeing that State’s laws were in fact violated (mostly court rulings for COVID waivers were illegal).

AZ, WI, GA, & PA were all adjudicated only RECENTLY.
 
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