Retention and Recruitment Crisis

[RackMaster]

I know this is not a problem isolated to Canada but this response is the most severe I've seen. I don't think anyone will recognize the Canadian Armed Forces in a few year's. It's kind of infuriating, seeing what has happened.

Eyre also opens the door to more flexible working arrangements for service members while emphasizing the continued need to change the military's culture to better attract and retain women, Indigenous people and other under-represented groups.


"Culture change will remain the top departmental priority throughout the reconstitution process," the order reads. "This endeavour will require significant resources and a willingness to embrace recommendations from external review authorities."


The new approach won't come without risks, which Eyre acknowledged in directing a reduction of large-scale training exercises in favour of more individualized classes as the military focuses on getting enough troops with basic skills into the ranks.

Military's chief orders halt to non-essential activities, focus on personnel crisis

 

[RackMaster]

Maybe if they focused on warfighting, instead of every woke trend of the week...

I read in another article that due to shutting down recruiting centers during the 2020/2021 fiscal year, they only recruited 2000 that year.

In March they were short 7600 Regular Force members. With an attrition rate of 9.3%, they are losing 9000 a year, currently. Something major needs to change, this is not sustainable.

As of the 2021 census, there was approximately 65,000 Regular Force and 32,000 Reserve and Ranger Force.

Eyre said his number one priority is getting Canada’s armed forces up to full strength, with an attrition rate of 9.3 per cent between both regular and reserve forces, up from 6.9 per cent last year. The Canadian Armed Forces Retention Strategy was released just last month.

Canadian military would be 'challenged' to launch a large scale operation: chief of the defence staff

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadian-armed-forces-staff-shortfall-1.6395131

 

[pardus]

The wokeness in every army is going to last until the first battle in a conventional war is over and they see the pile of unprepared bodies in uniform. This is simply not sustainable, unless “they” are going to try for an autonomous/remote/robot AI based military that “doesn’t need” boots on the ground.

 

[GOTWA]

I left the Army in July after 16 years. Half Active, half Guard. Had 35 total months overseas split between Afghanistan and Africa. I'm not the only one that left this year. There are few CI positions in the state as it is, much less with that much deployed time. They can have their Covid screening sites, fire details, DSCA, and all of the other stupid bullshit. Not my problem anymore.

 

[amlove21]

I left the Army in July after 16 years. Half Active, half Guard. Had 35 total months overseas split between Afghanistan and Africa. I'm not the only one that left this year. There are few CI positions in the state as it is, much less with that much deployed time. They can have their Covid screening sites, fire details, DSCA, and all of the other stupid bullshit. Not my problem anymore.

This is the overwhelming feel inside the military right now. The amount of people just straight up turning down the next rank in favor of leaving the military is something I have never seen. It's a little more blunted on our side of the fence (both AF and SOF) for a couple reasons, but we are still feeling that pain as well.

 

[Marauder06]

This is the overwhelming feel inside the military right now. The amount of people just straight up turning down the next rank in favor of leaving the military is something I have never seen. It's a little more blunted on our side of the fence (both AF and SOF) for a couple reasons, but we are still feeling that pain as well.

The next rank turned me down, but even if it hadn't, I would have had to leave. Afghanistan was the last straw for me, but it wasn't the only thing.

 

[Marauder06]

The Real Reasons for the Army’s Recruiting Woes​

Few people seem to want to talk openly about what I opine is the true root cause of all of this: Democrat political policies. These policies include, but are not limited to, 1) woke policies running rampant throughout the military 2) the disastrous end to the war in Afghanistan 3) the constant attacks on conservatives, whites, and men (three separate categories, but “conservative white men” are the largest demographic in the Army) 4) the weakening of the U.S. position abroad and the inherent increasing possibility of conflict that brings 5) shitcanning thousands of troops over a COVID vaccine that we all know doesn’t work in the way we were told it would. What follows is a short explanation and analysis of these opinions and some suggestions on how to mitigate them.

 

[Kraut783]

I ended up retiring out of the USAR just a few months after getting my 20 year letter. The last few years were the hardest....I only stuck it out to get the medical (Tricare) once I hit 60...well, actually at 59 1/2, due to deployments. Civilian retirement medical is pretty expensive, and Tricare allows me the flexibility of retiring without a huge medical cost for me and my wife.

 

[DA SWO]

The Real Reasons for the Army’s Recruiting Woes​

View attachment 41022

Another good article.
I fear another Task Force Smith, but it's what's needed at this point.

The people pushing this shit are betting they will be gone when shit hits the fan.

 

[Cookie_]

The Real Reasons for the Army’s Recruiting Woes​

Few people seem to want to talk openly about what I opine is the true root cause of all of this: Democrat political policies. These policies include, but are not limited to, 1) woke policies running rampant throughout the military 2) the disastrous end to the war in Afghanistan 3) the constant attacks on conservatives, whites, and men (three separate categories, but “conservative white men” are the largest demographic in the Army) 4) the weakening of the U.S. position abroad and the inherent increasing possibility of conflict that brings 5) shitcanning thousands of troops over a COVID vaccine that we all know doesn’t work in the way we were told it would. What follows is a short explanation and analysis of these opinions and some suggestions on how to mitigate them.


View attachment 41022

I'm going to disagree with you here, but only in target, not substance.

I think those issues you bring up aren't having much of an impact on recruiting, but they absolutely are having an impact on retention.
2/4 are something I hear a lot, regardless of politics. Same with 5, to an extent. 1 tends to be applicable if you're in 3, so while I disagree with your viewpoint on that I do understand and acknowledge it.

I think one of the single biggest hit against the military is Afghanistan. Regardless of politics, a lot of kids in the target demographic have a negative view of service because of that war.
Throw in some recent big news shit (Vanessa Guillen/other SA cases, dogshit barracks, contaminated water in housing, etc) and a lot of these kids see the military as not giving a fuck about them. I honestly can't say I'd disagree with them. Individual command teams and leadership chains for sure do, but not the bureaucracy at large.

 

[ThunderHorse]

The Real Reasons for the Army’s Recruiting Woes​

View attachment 41022

The Army RIF's a lot of good officers who get on the wrong side of a commander here and there for whatever reason. The Army also promotes a lot of dudes who just want that shit on their resume. And then almost immediately after the boards come out, guys put in their refrad for after their promotion date. I only saw one officer, ever who put in his refrad before his first board so that he would exit exactly at the four year mark. This guy was also one of the best leaders I've ever met. He was a four years and I'm out when we were in AOBC. No way he would not have been a SAMS or Fullbright Scholar type if he actually desired a long career.

 

[Teufel]

The number one thing pushing people out of uniform remains bad leadership and command climates. Yes this new generation is different and expects different things. That’s probably a fairly constant judgement from older generations to junior ones throughout military history though, especially when it involves combat veterans.

I was in uniform before and after the US ended the prohibitions to homosexuals in service and women in combat arms. Both these initiatives were much more contentious than what is happening now and didn’t really upend the military like “everyone” thought they would.

I think the biggest factor in senior personnel getting out is that we are over it after spending our youth and most our career at war. At some point you earned all the gold stars you can collect and it’s time for something different, especially after twenty years of service.

 

[Marauder06]

I'm going to disagree with you here, but only in target, not substance.

I think those issues you bring up aren't having much of an impact on recruiting, but they absolutely are having an impact on retention.
2/4 are something I hear a lot, regardless of politics. Same with 5, to an extent. 1 tends to be applicable if you're in 3, so while I disagree with your viewpoint on that I do understand and acknowledge it.

I think one of the single biggest hit against the military is Afghanistan. Regardless of politics, a lot of kids in the target demographic have a negative view of service because of that war.
Throw in some recent big news shit (Vanessa Guillen/other SA cases, dogshit barracks, contaminated water in housing, etc) and a lot of these kids see the military as not giving a fuck about them. I honestly can't say I'd disagree with them. Individual command teams and leadership chains for sure do, but not the bureaucracy at large.

A primary, unspoken reason recruiting is floundering is because the people who typically encourage people to join the military aren't doing it. They aren’t doing it because of extreme leftist policies, like the Afghanistan pullout debacle you mentioned. Many of us who have served proudly up to this point can't, in good conscience, encourage others to do so.

What is there to disagree with on point 3? Do you think it's not happening? Because... it is.

 

[BrassOverBolt]

Several big ones for me...

1. A 3M system that inhibits even the simplest of tasks through heaps of red tape. Ex. Distilled water a HAZMAT to be filed and signed for? Really?

2. Risk Aversion to the point of Operations being stymied.

3. Bureaucratic policies tailored to the lowest common denominator.

4. Laughable excessive safety breifs that infantilize the supposedly "1%".

Right after Operation Allies Refuge and the withdrawal of Kabul one of my favorites was a counter right wing extremist "training" that cited that American founding symbolisms were questionable. Among them, the Gadsden flag was cited. I, Along with many others in the room proceeded to look at the left shoulder patch (Navy Jack) of our NWU type 3's.

A little bit of a rant, but yes, I think retention may be a bigger issue than recruiting.

 

[Cookie_]

A primary, unspoken reason recruiting is floundering is because the people who typically encourage people to join the military aren't doing it. They aren’t doing it because of extreme leftist policies, like the Afghanistan pullout debacle you mentioned. Many of us who have served proudly up to this point can't, in good conscience, encourage others to do so.

What is there to disagree with on point 3? Do you think it's not happening? Because... it is.

I disagree because the "extreme leftist policies" destroying the military is the exact same rhetoric I heard when DADT ended. It's the same rhetoric that started floating around when females were allowed into combat arms.
Neither of those destroyed the military.

I don't feel attacked as a white man, but I'm also not a conservative. That's why I say I get the viewpoint you may have, but it'll be a disagreement along political lines about the severity of that.

---

The military is reaching a headway of finding out that demographics are changing, and we're not going to be able to maintain a military of mainly white conservative dudes going forward.

The options are "Go woke" and try to get a wider diversity of recruits to maintain numbers, or keep it the same and slim it down to manning levels that can work with who it can attract in a more traditional sense.

I think the solution is probably somewhere in between those two points, but that's way above my paygrade.

 

[amlove21]

I disagree because the "extreme leftist policies" destroying the military is the exact same rhetoric I heard when DADT ended. It's the same rhetoric that started floating around when females were allowed into combat arms.
Neither of those destroyed the military.

I don't feel attacked as a white man, but I'm also not a conservative. That's why I say I get the viewpoint you may have, but it'll be a disagreement along political lines about the severity of that.

---

The military is reaching a headway of finding out that demographics are changing, and we're not going to be able to maintain a military of mainly white conservative dudes going forward.

The options are "Go woke" and try to get a wider diversity of recruits to maintain numbers, or keep it the same and slim it down to manning levels that can work with who it can attract in a more traditional sense.

I think the solution is probably somewhere in between those two points, but that's way above my paygrade.

This whole comment is a lot. To your bolded- current demographics show an outsized percentage (compared to America writ large) for minorities. Women underperform by a ton, but that's really the only demographic that isn't' a direct representation of the actual makeup of America.

Is your point here that we need to increase the amount of minorities, or decrease the amount of "white men"? If so, why? If not, feel free to ignore that one.

I guess I would ask- can you explain what you mean by "wider diversity of recruits"? Do more minorities = greater warfighting capabilities? And before you hit me with, "Diversity of ideas and experiences helps us be better warfighters", please understand that's not what you said. You said we could maintain recruiting numbers by going woke and getting a wider diversity of recruits- I don't know what that means.

 

[Cookie_]

This whole comment is a lot. To your bolded- current demographics show an outsized percentage (compared to America writ large) for minorities. Women underperform by a ton, but that's really the only demographic that isn't' a direct representation of the actual makeup of America.
Is your point here that we need to increase the amount of minorities, or decrease the amount of "white men"? If so, why? If not, feel free to ignore that one.
I guess I would ask- can you explain what you mean by "wider diversity of recruits"? Do more minorities = greater warfighting capabilities? And before you hit me with, "Diversity of ideas and experiences helps us be better warfighters", please understand that's not what you said. You said we could maintain recruiting numbers by going woke and getting a wider diversity of recruits- I don't know what that means.

I see where this got confusing. My point about demographics was in reply to @Marauder06 original comment that the majority demographic in the Army (though also probably military overall) is conservative white men.
I haven't seen super recent numbers, but I don't think he's wrong in that assertion.

My comment you bolded was that I don't think we (the military) can continue to expect to fulfill manning numbers and still maintain a "non-woke" military attractive to large swathes of that group.

I think the military either has to adapt to the population ("go woke") to encourage more of the general population to find it attractive, or we're going to have to maintain current military culture and might have reduced numbers to reflect that.

I want people in the military willing to do the job and embrace the suck. Whatever demographics they fall under are cool with me.

 

[amlove21]

I think the military either has to adapt to the population ("go woke") to encourage more of the general population to find it attractive, or we're going to have to maintain current military culture and might have reduced numbers to reflect that.

First of all, thanks for clarifying, I get what you meant now, my issue not yours.

To your above- If I can offer, I think you have a fatal flaw in your reasoning. The *overwhelming* majority of all people (minorities included) are decidedly "not woke", and the people thinking about getting into the military are less so than that. If this board is even close to an accurate representation of the military, it's quite apparent.

I interact with thousands of 15-20 year olds a month. Tens of thousands per year- the loudest voices screaming for things like getting rid of the shot mandate and stopping with all the "woke" nonsense are the Gen Z kids that are supposed to be the most vocal- they're just not doing it on Tik Tok and IG because they are afraid the military will see it and punish them or restrict their ability to join because of their non-woke views.

Those outsize "woke" voices getting a ton of attention don't represent an outsized population, they just get the most amplification, so it leads one to believe that we are missing some huge swath of population that wanna kill people for a living but also have xe/xer pronouns in their signature block. That's just not the case, in my experience.

All that being said- diversity does not make us more lethal in any way, shape, or form. I won't even go as far as to say that "diversity of ideas and experience" makes us more lethal. That's nonsense. Not saying you said it, I am saying it's bullshit. In general. And specifically. Inherently.

 

[Cookie_]

To your above- If I can offer, I think you have a fatal flaw in your reasoning. The *overwhelming* majority of all people (minorities included) are decidedly "not woke", and the people thinking about getting into the military are less so than that. If this board is even close to an accurate representation of the military, it's quite apparent.

I interact with thousands of 15-20 year olds a month. Tens of thousands per year- the loudest voices screaming for things like getting rid of the shot mandate and stopping with all the "woke" nonsense are the Gen Z kids that are supposed to be the most vocal- they're just not doing it on Tik Tok and IG because they are afraid the military will see it and punish them or restrict their ability to join because of their non-woke views

Hey, if I'm wrong I'm wrong. You easily beat my experience in this conversation with gen Z by a few thousand.

If the vast majority of kids attending recruiting events are against the "woke" stuff, then the DOD needs to reevaluate what they want these organizations to be. Either "woke" or fully manned it seems.

 

[GOTWA]

A primary, unspoken reason recruiting is floundering is because the people who typically encourage people to join the military aren't doing it. They aren’t doing it because of extreme leftist policies, like the Afghanistan pullout debacle you mentioned. Many of us who have served proudly up to this point can't, in good conscience, encourage others to do so.

What is there to disagree with on point 3? Do you think it's not happening? Because... it is.

I was already on the fence with getting out before the Afghan fallout. Then one night watching everything unfold I received a call from my Cat2 asking for help getting his mother, father, brother, nieces and nephews out. After exhausting all of my Instagram contacts, talking to congressional staffers, and working to call in favors with dudes on the ground, I couldn't pull it off. And that...that absolutely broke me.