Retention and Recruitment Crisis

Marauder06 said:
This is especially humorous to me because I know you were a Signal officer. ;)

Self Burn GIF
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In the Guard we can generally speaking choose our branch. There are some outliers of course, but all but one or two in my class of 41* received the branch they wanted. One unit had 3-4 vying for 2 slots, hence the outcome above.

Anywho, 41* candidates, I was in the bottom quarter in PT thanks to a hernia repair (don't get me started) and something like top 5 academically and top 10 in leadership. I graduated...21st. Our top 2 or 3 (2 of whom earned the slots mentioned above even if they were Cav...) were studs across the board and what you expect for that ranking. We had 2, maybe 3, in the top 10 with 300 APFT scores, but bottom half of the class in academics and leadership.

I want everyone to think about those numbers. Top 10 in APFT + bottom half in the other two metrics = Top 10 in the class. This was 2000. Does ANYONE think that's changed much in 22 years? Max the APFT (or whatever you kids call that train wreck these days. I laugh in woodland pattern BDU's) and the rest will sort itself out.

Now, some other hinky shit went on and I'll only discuss that offline with people I know. Let's say it plays into the overall theme of leveling the playing field. This was in 2000, remember the land before time and 9/11? Yeah, #MeToo.

* 41 made the grade to commission. 1 declined because he'd have to give up his AGR job and another deferred to finish college, commissioning at a later date.
 
amlove21 said:
And to all those that may be thinking, "Well, this doesn't sound so bad! After all, we needed a little leveling of the playing field..."

No. Stop it. This business is warfighting, full stop. It's about killing the enemy. If your initiative doesn't address our overall lethality, it shouldn't be. I don't know how we have lost sight of that, but we have.
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The military has been co-opted as a social club. Those in charge have forgotten what it's about. But this didn't happen overnight, the military has been the frog, and the the temp in the pot is just getting hot enough to feel it.
 
AWP said:
In the Guard we can generally speaking choose our branch. There are some outliers of course, but all but one or two in my class of 41* received the branch they wanted. One unit had 3-4 vying for 2 slots, hence the outcome above.

Anywho, 41* candidates, I was in the bottom quarter in PT thanks to a hernia repair (don't get me started) and something like top 5 academically and top 10 in leadership. I graduated...21st. Our top 2 or 3 (2 of whom earned the slots mentioned above even if they were Cav...) were studs across the board and what you expect for that ranking. We had 2, maybe 3, in the top 10 with 300 APFT scores, but bottom half of the class in academics and leadership.

I want everyone to think about those numbers. Top 10 in APFT + bottom half in the other two metrics = Top 10 in the class. This was 2000. Does ANYONE think that's changed much in 22 years? Max the APFT (or whatever you kids call that train wreck these days. I laugh in woodland pattern BDU's) and the rest will sort itself out.

Now, some other hinky shit went on and I'll only discuss that offline with people I know. Let's say it plays into the overall theme of leveling the playing field. This was in 2000, remember the land before time and 9/11? Yeah, #MeToo.

* 41 made the grade to commission. 1 declined because he'd have to give up his AGR job and another deferred to finish college, commissioning at a later date.
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Yeahhhh... I know Marines and Sailors that were walking oxygen thieves that were promoted ahead of peers, smarter and better guys, because they scored 300 on the PFT and dressed nicer.

The Navy guys once they make Chief? Fuhgetaboutit.....
 
Marauder06 said:
Allowing anyone special privileges and denying them to others makes the "others" resentful. This directly relates to the ACFT debacle. One of the biggest selling points about the ACFT, which most people in the Army did not want for many reasons that we discussed at length here on the site, because it was going to be an "equal" test. No special privileges for gender, no special grading for age. No more "pretty fit for a female" or "OK fitness for an old dude."

The Army views women as functionally interchangeable with men, which is why they're allowed into any training, any MOS, and any specialty. But they were allowed to retain their special privileges, ones, to their credit, that the service women themselves weren't demanding. For example, the ACFT is now gender and age normed. Simply put, if you're female, you have a built-in advantage.
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It has gone full circle and is the same as it was back in the 90's....I got beat by a female in her 40's for high PT at BASIC. I never once blamed the system I blamed myself. My sit-up game was weak and I should have done gooder!

What happened if you couldn't pass PT you worked on it til you passed? I am honestly asking!!!

I'll hold off on my ideas of why recruiting/reenlistment is down. Bottom line as said in other posts, the microscopic voice is getting all the attention from the brass and driving us in the wrong direction.

8-):thumbsup:
 
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AWP said:
In the Guard we can generally speaking choose our branch. There are some outliers of course, but all but one or two in my class of 41* received the branch they wanted. One unit had 3-4 vying for 2 slots, hence the outcome above.

Anywho, 41* candidates, I was in the bottom quarter in PT thanks to a hernia repair (don't get me started) and something like top 5 academically and top 10 in leadership. I graduated...21st. Our top 2 or 3 (2 of whom earned the slots mentioned above even if they were Cav...) were studs across the board and what you expect for that ranking. We had 2, maybe 3, in the top 10 with 300 APFT scores, but bottom half of the class in academics and leadership.

I want everyone to think about those numbers. Top 10 in APFT + bottom half in the other two metrics = Top 10 in the class. This was 2000. Does ANYONE think that's changed much in 22 years? Max the APFT (or whatever you kids call that train wreck these days. I laugh in woodland pattern BDU's) and the rest will sort itself out.

Now, some other hinky shit went on and I'll only discuss that offline with people I know. Let's say it plays into the overall theme of leveling the playing field. This was in 2000, remember the land before time and 9/11? Yeah, #MeToo.

* 41 made the grade to commission. 1 declined because he'd have to give up his AGR job and another deferred to finish college, commissioning at a later date.
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Well, after I graduated Cadet Command made it so you didn't even have to pass the APFT at LDAC...when I went through LDAC you had to pass the APFT (were give a second chance when we arrived back in Garrison). If you failed to pass that one, Army either enlisted you or you had to pay back 100% of your scholarship. (Not sure if anyone had to do that). But my PT failure of a roommate at VMI, how I don't know, he was in better shape than I, never commissioned. I was at "the I" an extra semester and he came in on his commissioning weekend because he had two courses he had to take in the Summer (Also he was African American and he liked being catered to), and he failed his APFT. Never commissioned.
 
ThunderHorse said:
Well, after I graduated Cadet Command made it so you didn't even have to pass the APFT at LDAC...when I went through LDAC you had to pass the APFT (were give a second chance when we arrived back in Garrison). If you failed to pass that one, Army either enlisted you or you had to pay back 100% of your scholarship. (Not sure if anyone had to do that). But my PT failure of a roommate at VMI, how I don't know, he was in better shape than I, never commissioned. I was at "the I" an extra semester and he came in on his commissioning weekend because he had two courses he had to take in the Summer (Also he was African American and he liked being catered to), and he failed his APFT. Never commissioned.
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I have an acquaintance who went to the Citadel, didn't commission. He stayed in Charleston as a cop, now is local. I never asked him the 'why?'.
 
Devildoc said:
I have an acquaintance who went to the Citadel, didn't commission. He stayed in Charleston as a cop, now is local. I never asked him the 'why?'.
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They don't have to commission for whatever reason. I know a few who couldn't commission and a few who went to the Citadel because they had a scholarship but no intention of pinning on a bar.

Almost every single Citadel grad I've met was an absolute tool, some of the worst people I ever met are Citadel grads.
 
AWP said:
They don't have to commission for whatever reason. I know a few who couldn't commission and a few who went to the Citadel because they had a scholarship but no intention of pinning on a bar.

Almost every single Citadel grad I've met was an absolute tool, some of the worst people I ever met are Citadel grads.
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ThunderHorse said:
Depends on what year block. If after 88 Mandatory Commissioning was dropped.
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This guy is pretty cool, like give you the shirt off his back cool.

He's a year older than I, so 55. So I think 90 or so.

I'll dig in the next time I see him.
 
I have a grandson that is an Army recruiter, and he has told me that one of the main problems they run into, is that the military now goes all the way back to when an applicant was born and what prescriptions they have taken. Many are disqualified because of what they were given when younger. Another grandson, now a police officer, was disqualified for the Army because, when he was in the 9th grade, he had taken a special education class. He had passed all medical and physical test, but that one item disqualified him.

Anytime there is a post war period, the military tighten their requirements to enlist or stay in, then complain because they can't fill the slots needed. Back in my early days we had the professional privates. Then the military came out with the up or out program. Some troops were just happy to be a private with a place to stay and food to eat. Know a woman that was in 14 years as a truck driver, and she was happy being an E-4. But let go because she didn't want to be a Sgt.
 
LimaPanther said:
I have a grandson that is an Army recruiter, and he has told me that one of the main problems they run into, is that the military now goes all the way back to when an applicant was born and what prescriptions they have taken. Many are disqualified because of what they were given when younger. Another grandson, now a police officer, was disqualified for the Army because, when he was in the 9th grade, he had taken a special education class. He had passed all medical and physical test, but that one item disqualified him.

Anytime there is a post war period, the military tighten their requirements to enlist or stay in, then complain because they can't fill the slots needed. Back in my early days we had the professional privates. Then the military came out with the up or out program. Some troops were just happy to be a private with a place to stay and food to eat. Know a woman that was in 14 years as a truck driver, and she was happy being an E-4. But let go because she didn't want to be a Sgt.
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Related: I had to do a psych eval for a law enforcement training program I'm currently in. I self-reported taking prescribed-by-my-Army-doc antidepressants at my last duty station. Been off them for years. But then I had to get basically a note from Mom saying "little Mara is really OK," asking all kinds of very intrusive questions. I'm going to have the same issues with my concealed carry permit.

I understand why people feel that they either need to not seek the help they need, or lie about receiving it.
 
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LimaPanther said:
I have a grandson that is an Army recruiter, and he has told me that one of the main problems they run into, is that the military now goes all the way back to when an applicant was born and what prescriptions they have taken. Many are disqualified because of what they were given when younger. Another grandson, now a police officer, was disqualified for the Army because, when he was in the 9th grade, he had taken a special education class. He had passed all medical and physical test, but that one item disqualified him.

Anytime there is a post war period, the military tighten their requirements to enlist or stay in, then complain because they can't fill the slots needed. Back in my early days we had the professional privates. Then the military came out with the up or out program. Some troops were just happy to be a private with a place to stay and food to eat. Know a woman that was in 14 years as a truck driver, and she was happy being an E-4. But let go because she didn't want to be a Sgt.
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The Commonwealth forces have folks that stay corporals or lance corporals basically their entire career. Do 20 and retire.

French system is a bit different, when you reach the rank of corporal there are two tracks. Caporal Chef and Sergeant. Those selected to be actual NCOs attend the NCO College. (Ecole nationale des sous-officiers is an 8 month school) Those who choose not to, but still want to serve go on the Caporal Chef track, and there is two grades of Caporal Chef. You have guys with 15 years who are straight killers and are still NCOs. But they're there to be your backbone and be career "buck sergeants" rather than move on through the NCO Ranks.
 
amlove21 said:
I feel this exact way about 99.96% of USAFA Grads. (the .04% is my lady, who doesn't read this site, but you can never be too careful, you know?)
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AFA grads haven't impressed me. I toured the AFA after coming back from Kosovo (Head of one of the departments (O-6) invited me. Cadets came up and just started shooting questions, zero military bearing.

I am also aware of two female cadets who (as officers) were in initial classes (one a pilot) who got extra breaks in order to make it. How is that equality?
 
My old PL said he hated West Point so much that he would try to sleep 12 hrs a day so he only had to be there for two years.
 
GOTWA said:
My old PL said he hated West Point so much that he would try to sleep 12 hrs a day so he only had to be there for two years.
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We said the same thing about VMI...I have no idea how that worked. Most guys at VMI who did that were also near the bottom of the class and looked like zombies as they'd stay up all night doing homework...instead of you know...like doing it during the day?

ETA: Never.Again.Volunteer.Yourself

Navy to Accept Recruits with Lowest Test Scores as Recruiting Goal Grows
 
The Army’s going retro with the “Be all you can be” campaign.

https://www.stripes.com/branches/ar...ing-slogan-advertising-campaign -8267208.html

While that sounds familiar to anyone who watched television in the 1980s and 1990s, the slogan best relays the “possibilities” that await a new Army recruit, said Maj. Gen. Alex Fink, chief of Army enterprise marketing.

(Chief of Army enterprise marketing?)

Here’s a refresher for you young guys and gals…


Here’s hoping the Corps goes back to the well too, I’d love to see an updated version of this one. (Circa 1990)

 

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