Retention and Recruitment Crisis

[RackMaster]

 

[Cookie_]

Phone cards for illegals, change my mind.

It's worse! Going to copy a comment from the Army subreddit that explains it deeper, but all BAS (for barracks soldiers+seperate rats personnel) is put into one pot of money by the Army. The Army then uses the BAS deducted from barracks soldiers but not spent at the DFAC to subsidize everyone else's BAS. The Army is sees low DFAC utilization as reducing expenditures, so there is no motivation to fix the issue.

#You've activated my trap card

I'd like to address this and some of the misconceptions here. For instance, the current top comment by u/AgisDidNothingWrong says

> Last I heard, the army agreed to stop doing that.

EDIT: To be clear, not a knock on u/AgisDidNothingWrong. He probably heard some shit or someone said something. Just want to make clear, I have watched all their congressional testimony, and I am constantly annoying journalists about Army Food.

They did **absolutely nothing of the sort**. The Army maintains all money is spent properly according to law. I *disagree* with that and the underlying intent by the original public law for BAS. It is intended for food and DFAC Operations.

The acting AMC CG, LTG Moran, was before the House Armed Services Committee to talk about the food program. I detailed this, with full videos, [in this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/army/comments/1jvvuln/hasc_testimony_amcs_ltg_mohan_responsible_for/), which I encourage you all to read, and watch the videos. The thread title was **'\[HASC Testimony\] AMC's LTG Mohan, responsible for DFAC Quality and Operations, tells Congress the last time he ate in a DFAC was "4 months ago" (\~SEP '24)'**. I spent time cutting up the HASC testimony so you can jump straight to his Q/A on these topics!

>He says that this money is not spent '**elsewhere**'. He explains BAS [the way I have been saying for several months it probably is](https://www.reddit.com/r/army/comments/1iphf5d/comment/mcs3kl4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) \- They balance X dollars needed for everyone's BAS against the Meal Deductions they 'bring in', and then ask congress for the rest. So. When he says the money isn't being used "elsewhere", he's literally admitting here that the meal deduction money is going towards BAS. See this isn't 'elsewhere' because it's in the same appropriations section!

>This would mean that when we don't spend that Soldiers' money, people with 'full BAS', like your SNCOs and Officers, are getting their BAS, in part, paid for by Soldier's 'left over' BAS funds. Because it is not all being used for DFAC/Food at that Soldier's location. **The Army looks at it like one big pot of money**, and no one made them, they have chosen to look at it this way. When Stewart or Carson run out of food and Soldiers don't eat, the money the Army saved goes to pay the CG's monthly BAS. Wild.

>When he says [we spend](https://i.imgur.com/lTDcupX.png) about 1.9 billion to enlisted Soldiers for BAS - to be clear, he's talking about those authorized to mess separately. It's then offset by the 400 million paid back to the Army by meal card holders. So when we're not using at least 400 million on the food and operations of those ESM (Meal Card Holding) Soldiers, the excess is going to help defray the cost of every SNCO and enlsited person *not* on meal card. SNCOs, Married folk, who automatically get BAS? It's being defrayed by the money *from* meal card holders, when we don't spend their dollars on the DFAC. This is in opposition to the previous Army statement where they said these dollars are collected [for the ESM Program](https://www.army.mil/article/283532/the_facts_about_soldiers_meal_card_plans_and_basic_allowance_for_subsistence_bas) \- how can it go to the 'ESM Program', for DFAC operation and food, if it's *actually* used to offset full BAS cost.

#TLDR - The Army takes the meal deductions and puts it in the same 'pot' as BAS. They -separately- fund the DFAC, ignoring the meal deductions coming in.

Why does this make sense?

If everyone ate 100% of their meals at the dfac and your one solo dfac cost the Army 100 million, they would pay it. I believe that over time (since \~2000 with the new dfac model), their doctrine of constantly making cuts and reducing services has hit a tipping point. Once upon a time, we probably paid way more than meal deductions took in - now we're 'below' that. Now DFACs are below that. Now Fort Stewart, Fort Drum, they are **positive**. We make a profit off of those DFACs, which probably helps offset the overall food budget.

So see - they don't care when numbers decline. Numbers declining at a DFAC means less expenditure, and we're still taking the meal deductions regardless. Fort Carson had 40% of its meals in some months out of the KIOSKS this last year. Imagine how much money they saved the Army.

**This is why everyone should be concerned about Campus Style Dining. Campus Style Dining, in its objective, states it is a REVENUE generating operation. I'm** [**serious**](https://i.imgur.com/9FaggOC.png)**. It has no increase in nutritional standards. I am worried this will simply allow contractors to milk Barracks Soldiers for all their worth.**

The Army owes official responses on some stuff at the end of this month. I anticipate we will see a follow-up from u/Sw0llenEyeBall after those responses reach congress.

AI in the C2 process? We need to stop sucking AI's dick and thinking it is the fix for any problem, real or not. "Program-centric to capability-based?" Your programs provide your capabilities based upon your perceived needs.

The aviation piece could maybe work if you used that money towards training aviators and maintenance folks, maybe plussing up existing units by a few aircraft to maintain readiness around maintenance cycles...but that won't happen.


That ought to be fun. Y'all like light cavalry?

You know what is barely mentioned? Ruthlessly culling risk adverse leaders and that culture. We can talk about DEI's effect on the force, but no one wants to address leadership who wouldn't accept the slightest trace of risk during wartime, leaders who actively told their units to avoid contact so no one is injured or killed, and the "go along to get along" mentality that bred corporate yes men...all of which meant DEI and COVID mandates were guaranteed. We talk about the latter like it killed the force. Nah, the force was dying back in the late 90's, we just didn't see it at the time.

The letter from THE SECDEF has more about reducing GO positions and changing civilian employment policies than the SECARMY letter did.

SECDEF also directs us to "Enable AI-driven command and control at Theater, Corps, and Division headquarters". Maybe I'm reading into the word choice, but I don't want AI "driven" C2. We're gonna have some senior O6+/E9 that can barely work a computer using AI? How quickly until they think it's magic and divert the whole decision making process to some dumbass chatgpt model?

--------

Regarding the Space Force SOF topic; this has been in the works for a while and is (at my level) widely supported. They've had a SOF element for a few years now, so this just expands it and seperates them from AFSOC.
Think of the endstate as a dedicated technical ability more akin to 160th or some other "SOF support" units. They'll never be "in the fight", but it provides funding and career path integration for them.

 

[Devildoc]

Regarding the Space Force SOF topic; this has been in the works for a while and is (at my level) widely supported. They've had a SOF element for a few years now, so this just expands it and seperates them from AFSOC.
Think of the endstate as a dedicated technical ability more akin to 160th or some other "SOF support" units. They'll never be "in the fight", but it provides funding and career path integration for them.

I think a Space Force SOF enterprise should strike more fear into our peers than an expectation of black helicopters and Tier 1 units. The space/near-space, information/cyber warfare thing is as leading edge as it can be right now, and that is a scary capability.

 

[Cookie_]

I think a Space Force SOF enterprise should strike more fear into our peers than an expectation of black helicopters and Tier 1 units. The space/near-space, information/cyber warfare thing is as leading edge as it can be right now, and that is a scary capability.

I've had the opportunity to sit in a brief from Army cyber/space where they talked about what resources they can bring to SOF/some examples of how utilization could work. Super cool stuff.

I remember our OPS SGM talking afterwards and saying:

"I want all you 18 series guys to take this away from that vignette; we're the freaking enablers now man. Our job isn't gonna be just killing bad guys like it was in GWOT, it's gonna be killing bad guys so the nerds can have outsized impacts on the enemy." (Paraphrasing)

 

[Marauder06]

The letter from THE SECDEF has more about reducing GO positions and changing civilian employment policies than the SECARMY letter did.

SECDEF also directs us to "Enable AI-driven command and control at Theater, Corps, and Division headquarters". Maybe I'm reading into the word choice, but I don't want AI "driven" C2. We're gonna have some senior O6+/E9 that can barely work a computer using AI? How quickly until they think it's magic and divert the whole decision making process to some dumbass chatgpt model?

Yeah, that seems like some pretty bad word choice. It should be something like "implement AI-enabled command and control." Command is a commander function, not an AI function.

 

[ThunderHorse]

I've had the opportunity to sit in a brief from Army cyber/space where they talked about what resources they can bring to SOF/some examples of how utilization could work. Super cool stuff.

I remember our OPS SGM talking afterwards and saying:

"I want all you 18 series guys to take this away from that vignette; we're the freaking enablers now man. Our job isn't gonna be just killing bad guys like it was in GWOT, it's gonna be killing bad guys so the nerds can have outsized impacts on the enemy." (Paraphrasing)

Clearly someone who's read too much of Enders Game.

 

[Teufel]

Yeah, that seems like some pretty bad word choice. It should be something like "implement AI-enabled command and control." Command is a commander function, not an AI function.

I don't disagree with your point, but let's be honest. C2 is now a blanket term that is used without regard to its original meaning. Stepping past the laziness of our enterprise lexicon, AI is an amazing tool for building situational awareness, calculating weapons pairing, and even scripting tasks to maximize lethality. It cannot assume command functions but to be fair I've seen plenty of officers who suffer the same defect. Of all ranks, including GOs.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Clearly someone who's read too much of Enders Game.

Ender’s Game is a fun reference, but I think you kind of miss the mark here. Card’s story was about remote warfare—kids commanding fleets from a distance, completely disconnected from the battlefield. What it looks like is being discussed is the opposite: SOF teams physically creating access so cyber and space assets can have real-world impact. It’s hands-on, not hands-off. Less joystick, more door-kicking with a fiber-optic follow-up.

 

[Teufel]

Ender’s Game is a fun reference, but I think you kind of miss the mark here. Card’s story was about remote warfare—kids commanding fleets from a distance, completely disconnected from the battlefield. What it looks like is being discussed is the opposite: SOF teams physically creating access so cyber and space assets can have real-world impact. It’s hands-on, not hands-off. Less joystick, more door-kicking with a fiber-optic follow-up.

What you describe is very real and extremely useful in warfare. It may be hard to conceptualize but it's not that different that lazing a target for an air strike, except in this case the payload is digital. You can take huge shortcuts in cyberspace warfare if you can gain proximity to a target with the right kind of digital access.

 

[Teufel]

I've had the opportunity to sit in a brief from Army cyber/space where they talked about what resources they can bring to SOF/some examples of how utilization could work. Super cool stuff.

I remember our OPS SGM talking afterwards and saying:

"I want all you 18 series guys to take this away from that vignette; we're the freaking enablers now man. Our job isn't gonna be just killing bad guys like it was in GWOT, it's gonna be killing bad guys so the nerds can have outsized impacts on the enemy." (Paraphrasing)

Honestly in the future the conversation will likely have more to do with what SOF can do for cyber/space and not the other way around. Then again, I believe that we will never divorce ourselves from a need for SOF and conventional forces. Digital warfare has its limits and sometimes, well many times, you will need a dip chewing asshole with a gun to get something done for the nation. Even Ellen Ripley needed space Marines!

 

[Cookie_]

What it looks like is being discussed is the opposite: SOF teams physically creating access so cyber and space assets can have real-world impact. It’s hands-on, not hands-off. Less joystick, more door-kicking with a fiber-optic follow-up.

That's a pretty spot on analogy.

Honestly in the future the conversation will likely have more to do with what SOF can do for cyber/space and not the other way around. Then again, I believe that we will never divorce ourselves from a need for SOF and conventional forces. Digital warfare has its limits and sometimes, well many times, you will need a dip chewing asshole with a gun to get something done for the nation. Even Ellen Ripley needed space Marines!

I think the main takeaway from that week of seminars was "The fight is changing to LSCO and we need to change how we think about what our role is."

An example given was "an ODA won't assault a trench better than an infantry company will, but we have survivability beyond the FLET to create effects."

 

[Devildoc]

I wrote about it here a while back, some SME at SOCOM was talking about creation of a new 18-seris MOS to support. I also saw this today:

The Army is adding a new enlisted MOS for space operations

 

[Cookie_]

I wrote about it here a while back, some SME at SOCOM was talking about creation of a new 18-seris MOS to support. I also saw this today:

The Army is adding a new enlisted MOS for space operations

They went with a new Warrant Officer MOS instead of an 18 series MOS. It'll probably be like cyber and some signal warrants in that it has no feeder MOS, just technical requirements, so any soldier can apply.

As an observer, it's cool as hell to see what our guys are able to get their hands on and processes they develop.

As a guy who works supply/property, they're a constant headache lmao.

 

[BloodStripe]

When you have the funds you can always remake yourself. If there’s one thing SOCOM is good at doing, it’s getting funding. Like the Marine Corps, they have excellent PR. Unlike the Marine Corps, SOCOM has never said we do more with less.

 

[Spooky]

You’re telling me I joined the Army to do cool nerd shit when I could have been soaking in the Space Force spa life instead?!

WHAT THE FUCK!!!!