This shouldn't have been a story but some people need to be the "safety brief."
Retention and Recruitment Crisis
- Thread starter RackMaster
- Start date
This shouldn't have been a story but some people need to be the "safety brief."
AFT Score Chart 2025 - Army AFT Standards Chart
Here is the score chart. This is similar to the ACFT and 540/600 benchmark to not get taped.
Army updates grooming standards to realign with warfighting priorities
Lets see what "warfighter" standards are.
Hmm, two inches of length on top for a male is pretty short. Let's double check the actual document.
Huh. Bulk is different from length. One is the measurement of your hair flat from your scalp, the other is individual hairs.
Let's see if that's been addressed.
Oh cool, this is going as good as the Blue Book the SMA spent a year and tons of "TDYs to work with senior CSMs" on.
Lets see what "warfighter" standards are.
Hmm, two inches of length on top for a male is pretty short. Let's double check the actual document.
Huh. Bulk is different from length. One is the measurement of your hair flat from your scalp, the other is individual hairs.
Let's see if that's been addressed.
Oh cool, this is going as good as the Blue Book the SMA spent a year and tons of "TDYs to work with senior CSMs" on.
Additional note; the SMA was on a podcast recently and was asked why he wears non-regulation PT shorts. He said (x level of officer) can authorize an exemption, so he has that.
This is a dude who's all about "standards", the top NCO in the Army, but he can't wear the PT uniform or Regulation Dress footwear?
Why should I or my Joes care about standards when the top guy keeps saying they dont apply to him?
This is a dude who's all about "standards", the top NCO in the Army, but he can't wear the PT uniform or Regulation Dress footwear?
Why should I or my Joes care about standards when the top guy keeps saying they dont apply to him?
Topkick
Verified Military
Isn't this guy from the SOF community? Shocking, I say! They would never bend the uniform rules...lol.
Seriously, he is the SMA of the big Army now, and he especially should play by the rules everyone else has to play by.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
I'm glad that we're finally done with beards for SOF kids only. There was ZERO reason for them to have beards. The fact that it took this long is a disgrace.
It's even stranger because, in my experience, the SOF guys are more aware of the rules than most troops. If we were at another armory or on an installation they'd be more squared away than even some active duty troops, and they'd make damn sure all of the support peeps followed the standard as well.
I'm not sure I follow. Are you talking about SOF kids as in 18 series guys, or do you think everybody in SOF was allowed beards?
Either way, nothing has changed regarding the standard for beards in years, other than the fact that it can know be a medical chapter.
Topkick
Verified Military
Okay, well in regards to uniforms, my experience with Active Duty SF is a bit different.
Aware, maybe. Following them? Also,maybe.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
They must have pulled the graphic from when I originally saw it, it legit said beards or maybe I'm losing it.
Anyways, beards need to be for the rank and file or they need to go.
Beards were an Afghanistan and Iraq thing because the tribal elders expected men to have beards
Did we drag it our longer than necessary? probably , the conventional forces didn't need beards.
Should we allow beards? maybe, biggest issue from the 70's was regulating beards.
They were supposed to be neatly trimmed, but some sailors looked like fucking pirates, so no more beards. I can see the current generation being just as stupid.
Kraut783
SOF Support
Beards for cultural use is important. Beards because it's cool...not so much.
I think facial hair, or any variation of a grooming standard, needs to be a case by case situation...operationally.
Allowing beards in general, I don't know....if the rank and file would be mature about it, maybe....but you know how that goes.
I think facial hair, or any variation of a grooming standard, needs to be a case by case situation...operationally.
Allowing beards in general, I don't know....if the rank and file would be mature about it, maybe....but you know how that goes.
Having a beard or any facial hair is cosmetic, it doesn't affect operations in any form. I had facial hair overseas as a contractor AND the requirement to wear NBC as needed. My contract even had us fit and test our masks at Shaw AFB...none of us had to shave, all us could seal our masks. So this is all cosmetic, all looks. Period. The "you can't seal a mask with facial hair" is a farce unless we start talking about really long facial hair, so then it comes down to realistic standards concerning beards or other facial hair. Surely we can enforce standards, right?
Well, shit. Thanks for the support SMA. Strong work, you hypocrite.
Good luck, soldiers.
Well, shit. Thanks for the support SMA. Strong work, you hypocrite.
Good luck, soldiers.
Topkick
Verified Military
I'm for no beards in garrison, prefer the clean cut representation. But all for facial hair for mission oriented purposes. But then I think we should use anything that gives us an advantage on the battlefield.
Devildoc
Verified Military
Hey, you leave the navy out of this. Beards are our domain, everyone else stole it and made trouble for the rest of us.
I get banning beards for operational reasons, we know the farce of banning them for mask seals, and I roll my eyes at the "for good order and discipline" reason. Yeah, I have always been that guy: I ask why and if it's a stupid reason I usually find subversive ways to fight it. Blame my parents I guess.
I had leadership go both ways for the field: 'everyone shaves every day', and 'you don't need to shave in the field', but in any case it was smooth cheeks in garrison.
I put beards up there with no hands in pockets.
I've said here on the site many times that I can't grow a beard for shit. In or out of uniform, I won't have one. I tried that once during a long term covert HUMINT course I was in, it... wasn't good.
That said, I'm totally fine with service members in uniform having beards. We already allow it for religious exemptions. Much of the rest of the world already allows it. Let's just let it happen.
That said, I'm totally fine with service members in uniform having beards. We already allow it for religious exemptions. Much of the rest of the world already allows it. Let's just let it happen.
Infantry Pioneer Sergeants, would like to have a chat.
Infantry Pioneer Sergeants, would like to have a chat.
There's a gay joke in here, I just can't think of the right words.
I have a pretty decent beard. At my age I am not cutting my beard. Or my old lady will dis-own me.
I have zero issues with my Avon or Mira masks sealing at all. Usually am wearing a PAPR unit as well. So not as big a concern. But, experience no sealing issues when not using the unit.
Infantry Pioneer Sergeants, would like to have a chat.
Rest in Peace Tim, killed in Afghanistan in a helo crash.
2RAR have converted to amphibious and no longer have Pioneers, so the Senior Boat platoon Sergeant carries on the tradition.
There's also the tradition of cutting the beard off on posting out of the position.
