SF Soldiers KIA in Niger

[Ooh-Rah]

- update -

US soldiers killed in Niger were outgunned, 'left behind' in hunt for ISIS leader

Four Army special operations soldiers killed in action during an ambush in Niger last October were part of a largely inexperienced and lightly-armed team outmatched by ISISfighters who exploited bad decisions by U.S. commanders, families of the fallen soldiers and other sources briefed on the military investigation told ABC News.

"They were left on their own and it was The Alamo. They were abandoned," the parent of one of the American commandos who died told ABC News. "The sad thing is, they didn't realize they'd been left behind, and by the time the other guys attempted to get to them, it was probably too late, and they'd been killed."

 

[Kraut783]

I do wish the military/admin would stop not being honest with families in theses situations. Starting back from the days of Pat Tillman friendly fire death to now. If you lie, it's going to come out....and it's just going to be 100% worse.

 

[Grunt]

Honesty is *always* the best policy -- even when it's painful. Whether it's the good, the bad, or the ugly...get it out there and get in front of it. That's the mature thing to do...and it's right.

 

[Marauder06]

I think sometimes that accuracy gets sacrificed for speed. Commanders want to get as much information as they can to the families, as soon as they can. First reports are almost always wrong, or at least incomplete, and later corrections to the record come across as cover-up.

 

[DA SWO]

- update -

US soldiers killed in Niger were outgunned, 'left behind' in hunt for ISIS leader

Four Army special operations soldiers killed in action during an ambush in Niger last October were part of a largely inexperienced and lightly-armed team outmatched by ISISfighters who exploited bad decisions by U.S. commanders, families of the fallen soldiers and other sources briefed on the military investigation told ABC News.

"They were left on their own and it was The Alamo. They were abandoned," the parent of one of the American commandos who died told ABC News. "The sad thing is, they didn't realize they'd been left behind, and by the time the other guys attempted to get to them, it was probably too late, and they'd been killed."

Not happy that the Captain is being thrown under the bus.
Management fucked up, and the tactical level folks bear the brunt of their mistake.

 

[DozerB]

They are tearing that TL to shreds. Fudged up accountability during a gunfight with multiple vehicles moving and firing, multiple casualties sustained, and both sides of your helmet blaring commanders' voices demanding SITREPs... I understand the people in the article are experiencing immense pain, but I'm not sure one can overstate the chaos of the situation. Officer Candidates lose people between the barracks and the chow hall at OCS, not because they're idiots or apathetic, but because keeping track of moving humans takes brainpower; now add incoming fire, spotty comms, and separate vehicles to the equation. I hate the way the article makes it sound like he was incompetent simply because he lost track of where his guys were WHILE GETTING ATTACKED.

Oh, and the writer can pound sand for this one: "only one combat deployment to Afghanistan." Clearly trying to make the guy sound inexperienced. That's more than 90% of the TLs I know coming through these days.

 

[Gunz]

They were up shit alley. They needed a react and CAS and what they got--an unarmed drone and French Mirage jets unable to establish a visual target--were ridiculously inadequate. We've been over this. This was a clusterfuck of an ambush and these Soldiers needed immediate help in the form of firepower and it wasn't available because risk averse higher ups and politicians, once again, let our people die rather than offend the locals with too big a footprint. Fuck that. Do not send our people into hostile territory unless you are willing and able to back them up. These Mog-Benghazi situations don't have to have these desperate outcomes if enough assets are in place.

 

[SpitfireV]

They were up shit alley. They needed a react and CAS and what they got--an unarmed drone and French Mirage jets unable to establish a visual target--were ridiculously inadequate. We've been over this. This was a clusterfuck of an ambush and these Soldiers needed immediate help in the form of firepower and it wasn't available because risk averse higher ups and politicians, once again, let our people die rather than offend the locals with too big a footprint. Fuck that. Do not send our people into hostile territory unless you are willing and able to back them the fuck up. I'm so fucking fed up with these Mog-Benghazi situations that don't have to have these desperate outcomes if enough assets are in place. We had small autonomous teams in the boonies in VN, very vulnerable to attack, and yet we could pull the chain on arty, fixed wing or rotor CAS, and foot react if needed. Don't deploy valuable SF/SOF without on-call support, QRF, CAS etc.

The terrible thing about what you're saying is that of all the countries in the world who can do that...the US is the most capable.

 

[BloodStripe]

I think what we're also hearing is one side of the story, from that of grieving family members. In reading through that link they are saying the military made tactical decisions that were incorrect. How many of those family members have earned a beret of any color, let alone green to make such a statement?

 

[Gunz]

Grieving families lash out. Hindsight is 20/20. Mistakes were made. But one AC130 flying overwatch might've made the difference.

 

[TacoTraplord]

That must be why they have their oversized logo added to the whole video.

That "oversized logo" was to cover up the flag that was watermarked on the video, they also removed the audio because there was music in the form of propaganda and fake screams edited into the video.

 

[Marauder06]

The logo was added to promote their company. Plain and simple.

 

[CDG]

That "oversized logo" was to cover up the flag that was watermarked on the video, they also removed the audio because there was music in the form of propaganda and fake screams edited into the video.

You are basing this on what? What they said in the explanatory article they released after the blowback from releasing the video?

 

[TacoTraplord]

Sofrep can try and spin it any way they want, at the end of the day they reposted terrorist propaganda with their logo on it in hopes of bolstering their companies revenue. Fuck sofrep.


The author of that letter (who called out operational SF guys by name, but decided to remain anonymous.) is clearly biased. IUW didn't exist 10 years ago, and now it's suddenly foundational to the training of every generation of Green Berets? Like most things, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Legitimate question: how does that bolster their revenue? Just trying to get more people to subscribe?
After your responses, I won't bring it up again because I don't want to detract any more from the discussion or the warriors that made the ultimate sacrifice. I just don't want to think that those from the same community would let something like this slide if it was for such purposes.

 

[DZ]

I don't think I need to explain how a video on their channel with their watermark, that has hundreds of thousands of views, gets their company revenue. Money is a son of a bitch, it can make people do stupid things..

 

[AWP]

A lengthy write-up of the AFRICOM report. The report itself reads like a dumpster fire and this article tears it to shreds.

The U.S. Military's Niger Ambush Investigation Raises More Questions Than It Answers

 

[Ooh-Rah]

One could think there is a 'problem' with Leadership in that part of the world....

Two Navy SEAL team leaders in Africa are being investigated over claims of sexual misconduct | Daily Mail Online

 

[DozerB]

"The summary of the investigation and the remarks at the formal briefing can only be seen as highly critical of Team Ouallam’s actions. It accuses the team leader of hastily copying and pasting details about the newly proposed mission into an existing template, which gave a false sense of plan’s scope."

I haven't done even close to the amount of cool things as 90% of the people on this board, but what I have done is:

1) A ridiculous amount of ConOps
2) A ridiculous amount of OpOrders

It seems that journalists must truly believe that missions get planned over 12 day periods in a nice, climate-controlled tent, sipping chocolate chip lattes and getting every ounce of information from the awkward intel guy in the corner while he stands at parade rest and the troops practice close order drill outside. "Hastily copying and pasting details about a newly proposed mission into an existing template" is literally taught to junior officers at every level of professional military education. You don't have time for anything else.

I hate that it is being used out of context to make this guy sound haphazard and careless.

 

[BloodStripe]

I'm all for plagiarizing work. Why recreate the wheel if you don't have to? But, and it's a very big but, you still have to read and review whatever it is you are using again and checking for accuracy.

 

[DA SWO]

I'm all for plagiarizing work. Why recreate the wheel if you don't have to? But, and it's a very big but, you still have to read and review whatever it is you are using again and checking for accuracy.

True, but a lot of shit diesn't change, and as long as management demands an OpOrd vs a FragOrd then cut and paste it is.