Sgt. Maj. of the Army all but says Army adopting MultiCam

[Marauder06]

No "pay raise" to keep military pay above the cost of inflation. Military benefits about to fall to the budget axe. Two wars left to finish and one about to get started.

But hey, shiny new uniforms!

 

[pardus]

How do the Marines get a pass on this one? Didn't they start this BS with there "we are too special to share" MARPAT? ACU is horrendous so getting rid of it before the hammer comes down seems like SMART idea to me.
Reed

Remember, the Marines paid for the research to be done on their cam patterns. They have every right in the world to copyright it.
They are the only branch that has proven they are smart enough to develop and issue sensible uniforms. I don't blame them in the slightest.

 

[goon175]

Remember, the Marines paid for the research to be done on their cam patterns. They have every right in the world to copyright it.
They are the only branch that has proven they are smart enough to develop and issue sensible uniforms. I don't blame them in the slightest.

I disagree with that slightly. The Marines did not pay for the research, the taxpayers did. And if it is more beneficial to the taxpayers to have a unified pattern between the branches, then the Marines can't (or shouldn't) say much about it.

 

[pardus]

I disagree with that slightly. The Marines did not pay for the research, the taxpayers did. And if it is more beneficial to the taxpayers to have a unified pattern between the branches, then the Marines can't (or shouldn't) say much about it.

Come on. Who's budget did it come out of? By your reasoning everyone can take everything if the "taxpayer" paid for it.

 

[goon175]

Come on. Who's budget did it come out of? By your reasoning everyone can take everything if the "taxpayer" paid for it.

As far as the military is concerned, I agree. If the government developed it, than any of the branches should be able to use it. That would be like saying "The Army developed a new carbine, but only the Army can use it". It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

Come on. Who's budget did it come out of? By your reasoning everyone can take everything if the "taxpayer" paid for it.

I think the copyright/you can't wear our shit was an all around bad deal. They should have said "hey Army look what we did, you guys should use this too". Instead they said "hey everybody check out our cool new uniforms, we copyrighted this shit so you can't use it, because we think we are better than you and we like being different".

Army said "oh yeah USMC, we've got UCP now, so HA"!

Marines "bawhahahaha you guys look stupid"

Navy "we took MARPAT and made all the colors blue b/c we don't want a man overboard to be found in the water"

USAF "wow we really like Army's new UCP, but we will one up them and make it a digital tiger stripe pattern of the same colors, new tiger stripe was cool in Vietnam"

Army "WTF Airforce"

Marines "man all you guys are retarded"

Army "oh well we'll just use multi cam even though we just spent billions on gear and uniforms"

USAF "WTF Army"

Navy "fuck it we'll let Spec War use MARPAT and call it something else, we own the Marines anyway"

USMC "still laughing at the big.mess they started"

 

[Mac_NZ]

You all do realize that the Marines were hoping everyone else would adopt their pattern and pay royalties so they could afford ammo for FY2015 right.

 

[Blizzard]

Latest:
http://www.armytimes.com/article/20140523/NEWS04/305230076/Army-selects-new-camo-pattern

Summary: the Army really wants MultiCam but can't afford it so they developed a knock off version instead. Wonder what Congress will say about this; still not a single/common multi-service uniform.

 

[pardus]

Latest:
http://www.armytimes.com/comments/article/20140523/NEWS04/305230076/Army-selects-new-camo-pattern

I can only see a comments section...

 

[Grunt]

I would like to have the money they spent on their many "studies" that were conducted to determine the fact that they needed another uniform -- I'm not even asking for the money it will cost to implement it.

Priorities....

 

[Blizzard]

I can only see a comments section...

Hmmm...here you go:

The Army has decided on a new camo to replace the unpopular Universal Camouflage Pattern on your ACUs— and the selection is very similar to MultiCam.

Sources, on condition of anonymity, confirmed Friday that the service has selected Scorpion W2 as its next Army combat uniform camo, a pattern born out of Army Natick labs.

Numerous Army sources refused to comment on this story, expressing reluctance to get ahead of the service’s announcement on an issue that remains under intense Congressional scrutiny.
Military.com broke the news, reporting that Sgt. Major of the Army Raymond Chandler III has been briefing senior sergeants major throughout the Army about the new pattern for the Army Combat Uniform.

Known internally as Scorpion W2, a source said the pattern is likely to be announced under a different name.

Its color palette of muted greens, light beige and dark brown resembles MultiCam, the pattern used by soldiers deploying to Afghanistan. However, Scorpion W2 uses fewer beige and brown patches and none of the vertical twig and branch elements later added for MultiCam.

The new pattern will serve as the service’s primary camo pattern, but Army uniform leaders have said they envision a “family” of patterns with a dark jungle-woodland variant and a lighter pattern for desert environs. The main camouflage pattern would be worn in garrison, and the others would go to deploying troops.

Natick derivedScorpion W2 from the original Scorpion pattern developed by Crye Precision, of Brooklyn, N.Y., MultiCam’s manufacturer. Crye officials did not respond to requests for comment.

Crye developed Scorpion under a government contract in 2002, and it was later used for Objective Force Warrior, a soldier systems development program, according to Guy Cramer, CEO of a competing camouflage developer, HyperStealth Biotechnology Corp., of British Columbia.

Cramer said while MultiCam and Scorpion may look similar, he believes MultiCam is better-performing.

The Scorpion W2, according to a source, was among the 22 patterns considered in 2010 when the Army began shopping for new combat uniforms. The Army narrowed that down to four finalists (Scorpion was not among them) and late last year it looked like leaders were nearing a deal with Crye to adopt MultiCam.

But then talks broke down over cost, according to Crye.

The Army’s options are somewhat limited. Congress, in the 2014 Defense Authorization Act, directed the Defense Department to rein in uniform spending and adopt a camouflage utility uniform or family of uniforms across all services. It has forced the Army to take a closer look at existing camouflage patterns — particularly those of its sister services, mainly the woodland and desert versions of the Navy and Marine Corps combat uniforms.

In March, an Army official confirmed the service could experiment with MultiCam colors if desired, noting a company can copyright a pattern but not a color palette.

Col. Robert Mortlock, the program manager for Soldier Protection and Individual Equipment, told Army Times at the time that the service examined camo beyond 50 meters and found that, while colors are important, the actual pattern is “not that relevant.”

 

[DA SWO]

Here is the new "almost" multicam design.

 

[Blizzard]

I found the last comment in the article to be kind of interesting:

Col. Robert Mortlock, the program manager for Soldier Protection and Individual Equipment, told Army Times at the time that the service examined camo beyond 50 meters and found that, while colors are important, the actual pattern is “not that relevant.”

Not necessarily a surprise but that statement seems somewhat in contrast to what I remember hearing when the digital patterns came out. It was all about the pattern.

 

[Brill]

The Scorpion W2, according to a source, was among the 22 patterns considered in 2010 when the Army began shopping for new combat uniforms. The Army narrowed that down to four finalists (Scorpion was not among them) and late last year it looked like leaders were nearing a deal with Crye to adopt MultiCam.

This reeks of external influence (eg. somebody most likely made several cash deposits of $9,500 into their Pentagon Federal Credit Union account).

Another source:

http://soldiersystems.net/2014/05/23/us-army-selects-scorpion-camouflage-pattern/

http://www.hyperstealth.com/scorpion/index.html

 

[pardus]

So Crye wanted too much money for Multicam but not for Scorpion? Seems odd.

 

[DA SWO]

So Crye wanted too much money for Multicam but not for Scorpion? Seems odd.

Crye probably figures the Army will be the only ones using scorpion.
Some points to ponder.
The photo was grabbed off of the SSD website, so it may not be accurate.
1. The guy is wearing green boots, so all you folks laughing at the AF for green boots, suck it
2. The stated position is this uniform will be worn with ACU pattern'd TA-50 until that TA-50 wears out. So look at the photo and imagine ACU gear vice "Scorpion" gear. I think they should have just added some brown/darker green to the current ACU then transitioned to another uniform (but am probably misguided).
3. MultiCam gear will work fairly well, and the combination of patterns may be very effective.
4. RUMINT says the 173rd Abn Bde, currently deployed all over Eastern Europe, is wearing MultiCam. Fist "approved" use of MC outside the CentCom AOR.

 

[Ranger Psych]

Plus, provided units allow it, you *CAN* use rit dyes and make ACU pattern gear into something much more useable... or even stain it with coffee grounds and make ACU pattern worth more of a shit.

 

[RayL]

Crye probably figures the Army will be the only ones using scorpion.
Some points to ponder.
The photo was grabbed off of the SSD website, so it may not be accurate.
1. The guy is wearing green boots, so all you folks laughing at the AF for green boots, suck it
2. The stated position is this uniform will be worn with ACU pattern'd TA-50 until that TA-50 wears out. So look at the photo and imagine ACU gear vice "Scorpion" gear. I think they should have just added some brown/darker green to the current ACU then transitioned to another uniform (but am probably misguided).
3. MultiCam gear will work fairly well, and the combination of patterns may be very effective.
4. RUMINT says the 173rd Abn Bde, currently deployed all over Eastern Europe, is wearing MultiCam. Fist "approved" use of MC outside the CentCom AOR.

Yeah that pic is dated. That was some of the initial photos from earlier 2000's with the OBJ Force Warrior.