Sniper Selection and Assessment
- Thread starter LM
- Start date
At first glance I think it’s a little vague, almost to the point where I am a bit lost on if this is a section leader saying "this is what I say you have to do to be here" or if it is a command driven program. I have a few questions and I will base my advice on the response to them.
1. What is the overall objective of the SSA? Is it to get the best soldier into the section or is a combination of the best soldier and training that soldier to a basic standard?
2. What is the list of learning objectives and qualities you are basing the SSA on (i.e. I want them to know A-B-C by completion, and I want X-Y-Z qualities in the selected soldier)?
3. Do you have policies and procedures handout, rules governing the SSA (i.e. this is what gets your dropped; this is what happens if “X” happens, ect)?
4. Who is making up the cadre and who will have the overall deciding factor for selecting or not selecting? What is that persons rank? Can that person be overruled by a CSM/LTC?
5. Is 4 days the allotted time from the unit CoC, or can you expand it (i.e. can you do a 4 day and two 2 day drills, ect, to allow for an added training time to the SSA)?
6. What training equipment and training facilities can you lock in? Are you able to lay on ranges & training areas?
7. Do you have any ammunition allotments for live fire training, or blank ammo for practical exercises?
8. What is the makeup of the section, 2 man teams, 3 man teams, ect? Are you putting cherries on guns or glass (i.e. senior is primary spotter, cherry is primary shooter)?
9. How available are Sniper school slots in your unit? Will a soldier attend school within 12 months of being in the section?
10. What is the incentive for a soldier to leave his line unit and passing the SSA, is it geared towards the soldier who thinks being a Sniper would be cool, or is it a promotion/schools incentive?
1. What is the overall objective of the SSA? Is it to get the best soldier into the section or is a combination of the best soldier and training that soldier to a basic standard?
2. What is the list of learning objectives and qualities you are basing the SSA on (i.e. I want them to know A-B-C by completion, and I want X-Y-Z qualities in the selected soldier)?
3. Do you have policies and procedures handout, rules governing the SSA (i.e. this is what gets your dropped; this is what happens if “X” happens, ect)?
4. Who is making up the cadre and who will have the overall deciding factor for selecting or not selecting? What is that persons rank? Can that person be overruled by a CSM/LTC?
5. Is 4 days the allotted time from the unit CoC, or can you expand it (i.e. can you do a 4 day and two 2 day drills, ect, to allow for an added training time to the SSA)?
6. What training equipment and training facilities can you lock in? Are you able to lay on ranges & training areas?
7. Do you have any ammunition allotments for live fire training, or blank ammo for practical exercises?
8. What is the makeup of the section, 2 man teams, 3 man teams, ect? Are you putting cherries on guns or glass (i.e. senior is primary spotter, cherry is primary shooter)?
9. How available are Sniper school slots in your unit? Will a soldier attend school within 12 months of being in the section?
10. What is the incentive for a soldier to leave his line unit and passing the SSA, is it geared towards the soldier who thinks being a Sniper would be cool, or is it a promotion/schools incentive?
Its vague only because timeline and "tasks/team events" are not described/finalized.
response is in BOLD
1. What is the overall objective of the SSA? Is it to get the best soldier into the section or is a combination of the best soldier and training that soldier to a basic standard?
ASSES JUNIOR ENLISTED PROFICIENCY TO HELP IDENTIFY WHO IS ALREADY UP-TO-PAR ON INFATRY TASKS, AND WHO IS MOST LIKELY CAPABLE OF LEARNING AND USING SNIPER OREINTED TASKS
2. What is the list of learning objectives and qualities you are basing the SSA on (i.e. I want them to know A-B-C by completion, and I want X-Y-Z qualities in the selected soldier)?
BASICALLY ABOVE- I WANT TO MITIGATE THE NEED TO WASTE TIME ON GOIN BACK OVER BASIC 11B FUNCTIONS SO THAT OUR TIME CAN BE FOCUSED ON MORE ADVANCED TACTICS, INFANTRY OR SNIPER
3. Do you have policies and procedures handout, rules governing the SSA (i.e. this is what gets your dropped; this is what happens if “X” happens, ect)?
ITS AN ASSESSMENT, IF THEY QUIT THEY ARE DROPPED, OTHER THAN THAT, THEY WILL GO THROUGH THE ENTIRE 4 DAYS, AND THEN BE EVALUATED ON HOW THEY PERFORMED, IF THEY STILL WANT TO COMMIT. MY CURRENT GROUP GETS TOGETHER WEEKLY TO TRAIN ON DIFFERENT THINGS SO THAT WHEN DRILL COMES, WE CAN FOCUS ON SNIPER TASKS, AND INTEGRATE INTO THE SCOUT PLT
4. Who is making up the cadre and who will have the overall deciding factor for selecting or not selecting? What is that persons rank? Can that person be overruled by a CSM/LTC?
AS OF RIGHT NOW, MY ENTIRE SECTION WILL BE THE CADRE- WHO GETS TO INTERVIEW AND HAVE A "SAY" WILL ONLY BE B4 QUALIFIED IN MY SECTION- AS OF NOW, THATS ONLY ME, BY THE TIME THIS GOES DOWN, MY ENTIRE SECTION WILL HAVE GONE TO SCHOOL AND HAD THEIR CHANCE, IF THEY PASS, THEY GET TO HAVE VOICE, IF THEY DONT, THEY DONT. BUT THEY SHOULD ALL PASS IT W/O ISSUE. THE HIGHEST RANK ENLISTED IS MYSELF (SSG) AND THEN OUR CO (CPT). ITS HIS CALL, BUT HE DEFERS TO MY OPINION, AND HASNT NOT BACKED ME YET, AND WITH OUTSTANDING RESULTS. CAN IT BE OVERRULED? NO, NOT IN ANYWAY THAT I CAN FORSEE, MY ENTIRE BN CoC IS AWARE OF THIS SITUATION AND LETS ME DO THINGS THE WAY I THINK, AND KNOW, THEY SHOULD BE DONE.
5. Is 4 days the allotted time from the unit CoC, or can you expand it (i.e. can you do a 4 day and two 2 day drills, ect, to allow for an added training time to the SSA)?
4 DAYS IS WITH THE EXPANSION.
6. What training equipment and training facilities can you lock in? Are you able to lay on ranges & training areas?
I HAVE BN ASSTES AT MY DISPOSAL, IVE BEEN GIVEN THE LIBERTY TO CHOOSE WHAT BASE AND EQUIPMENT I NEED TO DO THIS. I REALLY LIKE FT AP HILL, ITS AN AMAZING TRAINING LOCATION THAT CAN SUPPORT MUCH MORE ADVANCED UNITS THAN US, BUT THAT ADDS TO TRAVEL TIME AND THEN ANY GEAR ISSUES THAT ARE SURE TO ARISE AS ITS 5 HRS AWAY. SO I BELIEVE ILL BE DOING THIS AT FT DIX, WHICH IS CLOSE, AND CAN GET THE JOB DONE, ALTHOUGH TERRAIN IS NOT AS HARSH AS I WOULD LIKE.
7. Do you have any ammunition allotments for live fire training, or blank ammo for practical exercises?
AGAIN, EVERYTHING I WANT I CAN DO, BUT FOR THIS, THE ONLY LIVE AMMO WILL BE THE 5.56 FOR THE SHOOT-IN, SAME QUALIFICATION AS THE ARNG SNIPER SCHOOL, AFTER THAT, WE HAVE , 5.56 BLANK, ARTY SIMS AND SMOKE LOCKED ON ALREADY
8. What is the makeup of the section, 2 man teams, 3 man teams, ect? Are you putting cherries on guns or glass (i.e. senior is primary spotter, cherry is primary shooter)?
THIS IS OUTSIDE THE SELECTION PART I GUESS, BUT I CAN ANSWER ANYWAY. AS OF NOW ITS 3 2-MAN TEAMS, BECAUSE THATS HOW MANY PEOPLE I CURRENTLY HAVE AND WEAPONS TO SUPPORT. WITHIN THOSE TEAMS, I ORIGINALLY PLACED 1 NCO WITH AN E4. SOME DIDNT JIVE TOGETHER, SO WE SWITCHED IT UP. ALL TEAMS ARE NOW WORKING WELL TOGETHER AND PROGRESSING NICELY, FASTER THAN I ANTICPATED. IM NOT MAKING A "STANDARD" ON WHO IS ON GLASS AND WHO IS FIRING, BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO BE THE ONES TO DO THE JOB WHEN IM NOT AROUND, SO ITS ON THEM TO DECIDE WHO IS BETTER AT WHAT.
9. How available are Sniper school slots in your unit? Will a soldier attend school within 12 months of being in the section?
TYPICALLY YES, YOU AND I TALKED ALREADY ABOUT MY SITUATION, GROUND-UP, I WAS FIRST TO GO AND THE SECTION WAS ONLY HERE IN NAME. IT TOOK ME 18 MONTHS TO GET THERE, BUT NOW ALL MY GUYS ARE RESERVED AND GOING IN THE TEAMS IN WHICH THEY HAVE BEEN TRAINING. AS FOR THE NEW GUYS, I CANNOT GUARANTEE ANYTHING WITH FUNDING THE WAY IT IS NOW, BUT I CAN GUARANTEE THEY WILL BE INFORMALLY TRAINED TO THE HIGHEST STANDARDS MAKING THE SCHOOL MERELY A FORMALITY, AND FULLY CAPABLE TO SUCCESSFULLY DEPLOY IF I HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO DO SO.
10. What is the incentive for a soldier to leave his line unit and passing the SSA, is it geared towards the soldier who thinks being a Sniper would be cool, or is it a promotion/schools incentive?
EVERYTHING. WE HAVE A NEW CoC THAT CAME IN AND IS GETTING RID OF THE GOOD-OLE-BOY SYSTEM AND MOVING PIECES AROUND. STANDARDS ARE BEING EMPLACED AND SOLDIERS ARE BEING HELD TO THEM. WE ARE BREAKING THE HABIT OF GUYS COMING TO DRILLS AND DOING B.S. THEY WILL HAVE MORE CHANCES AT BETTER SCHOOLS YES, BUT BEYOND THAT, THEY WILL GET TO TRAIN AND WORK WITH GUYS THAT ARE SERIOUS ABOUT DOING THEIR JOB. THAT IN ITSELF IS ITS OWN REWARD, AND THAT IN TURN PUTS THEM HIGHER ON THE MERIT LIST FOR THE SCHOOLS. IE, I HAVE THE OK FOR ANY SCHOOL I WANT, LEADERSHIP WANTS ME TO DO RANGER, BUT I LIKE THE IDEA OF SAPPER. 2 OF MY E4'S GOT THE OK FOR RANGER ONCE DONE WITH SNIPER, ARSLC IS HIGH ON PRIORITY LIST AS WELL. A LOT HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST FEW WEEKS AND IN FRONT OF THE ENTIRE BDE, I GOT TO SHOW THAT MY GUYS ARE SETTING THE STANDARD.
does that answer your questions? I know it sounds flaky and high-and-mighty, but thats really whats goin on over here.
response is in BOLD
1. What is the overall objective of the SSA? Is it to get the best soldier into the section or is a combination of the best soldier and training that soldier to a basic standard?
ASSES JUNIOR ENLISTED PROFICIENCY TO HELP IDENTIFY WHO IS ALREADY UP-TO-PAR ON INFATRY TASKS, AND WHO IS MOST LIKELY CAPABLE OF LEARNING AND USING SNIPER OREINTED TASKS
2. What is the list of learning objectives and qualities you are basing the SSA on (i.e. I want them to know A-B-C by completion, and I want X-Y-Z qualities in the selected soldier)?
BASICALLY ABOVE- I WANT TO MITIGATE THE NEED TO WASTE TIME ON GOIN BACK OVER BASIC 11B FUNCTIONS SO THAT OUR TIME CAN BE FOCUSED ON MORE ADVANCED TACTICS, INFANTRY OR SNIPER
3. Do you have policies and procedures handout, rules governing the SSA (i.e. this is what gets your dropped; this is what happens if “X” happens, ect)?
ITS AN ASSESSMENT, IF THEY QUIT THEY ARE DROPPED, OTHER THAN THAT, THEY WILL GO THROUGH THE ENTIRE 4 DAYS, AND THEN BE EVALUATED ON HOW THEY PERFORMED, IF THEY STILL WANT TO COMMIT. MY CURRENT GROUP GETS TOGETHER WEEKLY TO TRAIN ON DIFFERENT THINGS SO THAT WHEN DRILL COMES, WE CAN FOCUS ON SNIPER TASKS, AND INTEGRATE INTO THE SCOUT PLT
4. Who is making up the cadre and who will have the overall deciding factor for selecting or not selecting? What is that persons rank? Can that person be overruled by a CSM/LTC?
AS OF RIGHT NOW, MY ENTIRE SECTION WILL BE THE CADRE- WHO GETS TO INTERVIEW AND HAVE A "SAY" WILL ONLY BE B4 QUALIFIED IN MY SECTION- AS OF NOW, THATS ONLY ME, BY THE TIME THIS GOES DOWN, MY ENTIRE SECTION WILL HAVE GONE TO SCHOOL AND HAD THEIR CHANCE, IF THEY PASS, THEY GET TO HAVE VOICE, IF THEY DONT, THEY DONT. BUT THEY SHOULD ALL PASS IT W/O ISSUE. THE HIGHEST RANK ENLISTED IS MYSELF (SSG) AND THEN OUR CO (CPT). ITS HIS CALL, BUT HE DEFERS TO MY OPINION, AND HASNT NOT BACKED ME YET, AND WITH OUTSTANDING RESULTS. CAN IT BE OVERRULED? NO, NOT IN ANYWAY THAT I CAN FORSEE, MY ENTIRE BN CoC IS AWARE OF THIS SITUATION AND LETS ME DO THINGS THE WAY I THINK, AND KNOW, THEY SHOULD BE DONE.
5. Is 4 days the allotted time from the unit CoC, or can you expand it (i.e. can you do a 4 day and two 2 day drills, ect, to allow for an added training time to the SSA)?
4 DAYS IS WITH THE EXPANSION.
6. What training equipment and training facilities can you lock in? Are you able to lay on ranges & training areas?
I HAVE BN ASSTES AT MY DISPOSAL, IVE BEEN GIVEN THE LIBERTY TO CHOOSE WHAT BASE AND EQUIPMENT I NEED TO DO THIS. I REALLY LIKE FT AP HILL, ITS AN AMAZING TRAINING LOCATION THAT CAN SUPPORT MUCH MORE ADVANCED UNITS THAN US, BUT THAT ADDS TO TRAVEL TIME AND THEN ANY GEAR ISSUES THAT ARE SURE TO ARISE AS ITS 5 HRS AWAY. SO I BELIEVE ILL BE DOING THIS AT FT DIX, WHICH IS CLOSE, AND CAN GET THE JOB DONE, ALTHOUGH TERRAIN IS NOT AS HARSH AS I WOULD LIKE.
7. Do you have any ammunition allotments for live fire training, or blank ammo for practical exercises?
AGAIN, EVERYTHING I WANT I CAN DO, BUT FOR THIS, THE ONLY LIVE AMMO WILL BE THE 5.56 FOR THE SHOOT-IN, SAME QUALIFICATION AS THE ARNG SNIPER SCHOOL, AFTER THAT, WE HAVE , 5.56 BLANK, ARTY SIMS AND SMOKE LOCKED ON ALREADY
8. What is the makeup of the section, 2 man teams, 3 man teams, ect? Are you putting cherries on guns or glass (i.e. senior is primary spotter, cherry is primary shooter)?
THIS IS OUTSIDE THE SELECTION PART I GUESS, BUT I CAN ANSWER ANYWAY. AS OF NOW ITS 3 2-MAN TEAMS, BECAUSE THATS HOW MANY PEOPLE I CURRENTLY HAVE AND WEAPONS TO SUPPORT. WITHIN THOSE TEAMS, I ORIGINALLY PLACED 1 NCO WITH AN E4. SOME DIDNT JIVE TOGETHER, SO WE SWITCHED IT UP. ALL TEAMS ARE NOW WORKING WELL TOGETHER AND PROGRESSING NICELY, FASTER THAN I ANTICPATED. IM NOT MAKING A "STANDARD" ON WHO IS ON GLASS AND WHO IS FIRING, BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO BE THE ONES TO DO THE JOB WHEN IM NOT AROUND, SO ITS ON THEM TO DECIDE WHO IS BETTER AT WHAT.
9. How available are Sniper school slots in your unit? Will a soldier attend school within 12 months of being in the section?
TYPICALLY YES, YOU AND I TALKED ALREADY ABOUT MY SITUATION, GROUND-UP, I WAS FIRST TO GO AND THE SECTION WAS ONLY HERE IN NAME. IT TOOK ME 18 MONTHS TO GET THERE, BUT NOW ALL MY GUYS ARE RESERVED AND GOING IN THE TEAMS IN WHICH THEY HAVE BEEN TRAINING. AS FOR THE NEW GUYS, I CANNOT GUARANTEE ANYTHING WITH FUNDING THE WAY IT IS NOW, BUT I CAN GUARANTEE THEY WILL BE INFORMALLY TRAINED TO THE HIGHEST STANDARDS MAKING THE SCHOOL MERELY A FORMALITY, AND FULLY CAPABLE TO SUCCESSFULLY DEPLOY IF I HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO DO SO.
10. What is the incentive for a soldier to leave his line unit and passing the SSA, is it geared towards the soldier who thinks being a Sniper would be cool, or is it a promotion/schools incentive?
EVERYTHING. WE HAVE A NEW CoC THAT CAME IN AND IS GETTING RID OF THE GOOD-OLE-BOY SYSTEM AND MOVING PIECES AROUND. STANDARDS ARE BEING EMPLACED AND SOLDIERS ARE BEING HELD TO THEM. WE ARE BREAKING THE HABIT OF GUYS COMING TO DRILLS AND DOING B.S. THEY WILL HAVE MORE CHANCES AT BETTER SCHOOLS YES, BUT BEYOND THAT, THEY WILL GET TO TRAIN AND WORK WITH GUYS THAT ARE SERIOUS ABOUT DOING THEIR JOB. THAT IN ITSELF IS ITS OWN REWARD, AND THAT IN TURN PUTS THEM HIGHER ON THE MERIT LIST FOR THE SCHOOLS. IE, I HAVE THE OK FOR ANY SCHOOL I WANT, LEADERSHIP WANTS ME TO DO RANGER, BUT I LIKE THE IDEA OF SAPPER. 2 OF MY E4'S GOT THE OK FOR RANGER ONCE DONE WITH SNIPER, ARSLC IS HIGH ON PRIORITY LIST AS WELL. A LOT HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST FEW WEEKS AND IN FRONT OF THE ENTIRE BDE, I GOT TO SHOW THAT MY GUYS ARE SETTING THE STANDARD.
does that answer your questions? I know it sounds flaky and high-and-mighty, but thats really whats goin on over here.
the shooting portion will be the exact same as the NG sniper school test, which is 3 , 5 round groups with an M4, 4cm circle group. but a pre-req is must already be expert qualified prior to coming.
as a former marine PMI,as well as a sniper, if an otherwise stellar soldier comes, and only has a bit of trouble in marksmanship, i can spend some time to help them out, but not being able to shoot-for-shit, is a definate no-go
If they can't hit a moving pop-up at 750, I wouldn't give them the time of day. Or is this just some good shooters who get to use the name Sniper, like people who don't serve in a battalion use the name Ranger because they went to a school for a few weeks?
could you, or I hit a mover at 750 without being trained on it? This is to help identify who is ready to under go that specific type of training, if they cant shoot, they cant shoot, but all any of us have to go on right now is the fundamentals to get to the next level. with the info at hand, would you add something like that to the assessment process?
From an assessment aspect, I certainly wouldn't consider anyone who couldn't do a 3 mile run and then hit the 300m target with an M16. Yes, I would take them to the range and see who can hit it (750), or even come close since you at least need to be on paper to be trainable.
I dont have the assets to have them run the 3 miler and then shoot @ 300m, however a cadre led short sprint of about a 1/2 mile will be before the 25m grouping excercise. So in all, it will have the same effect, yet ill be able to see the exact groups in which they can hold. This will be done on iron sights btw, so "zero'd" is not the goal. as long as they hold a group on the paper, we can see.
If you have the CoC on your side and have the abilities, manpower and resources to run an SSA I think it will do wonders for your section. The only concern I would have is getting a commitment from a Btn CSM to ensure the process stays. Company commanders and 1SG’s are ever changing, and you never know what the next leadership will think. Getting the CSM to support your efforts and draft policy requiring all section personnel to attend the SSA and requiring them to be on a 6 month probation would ensure that the system you are building remains in place. The reason I say the CSM is due to most of the policies emplaced by a CSM (even a past or former CSM) stay in place. Where some times new CDR’s will do away with old policy and reinvent the wheel.
As for your outline, I would recommend you compile an exact skill level ability, rules and policy to govern the SSA. The reason for this is so that you have an ability to say “this was the rules, you were counseled on them and you broke them and that is why you are out” vs giving someone the boot and that person going up the CoC feeling they have an argument. If you don’t have that emplaced for not only the SSA but also the probation period, I can see you or the next section leader taking some heat. I can also see a SSA program being dropped if an IG or congressional gets filed. It would be hard for a CoC to explain why Pvt Snuff got booted from his sniper position b/c he did not meet the requirements of a program that is not common practice across the Army. So the more professional it is, the more ability you have to keep it around and spread it out to other units.
Also with the idea that the SSA is not a “training” program and purely a selection process, I would not focus so much on Sniper skill sets or even Infantry skill sets, but I would focus on stress, confusion and flexibility. Look to evaluate their ability to perform duties on their own, to remain disciplined even when those duties are boring and otherwise unexciting. Looking more to evaluate their ability to stay focused during times where their mind wants to wonder and sleep is starting to kick in. However, I personally believe you would have more success and better results if you shifted from a focus of only assessing and selecting, by adding training and the probation as part of the actual SSA.
This is just a general format for basic description, again developing a policy, standards of conduct and performance, a macro/micro schedule and program of instruction would be in your best interest IMO. I am not saying you have to use this, pick from it what you want and I’ll help you with what I can. The key is to make it as professional as possible and to adjust the program to fit the needs of the unit and meet the commander’s intent, while getting what you want out of it. When you brief the command, or request support either through policy memos, or through actual service and support, it’s better to have a bullet proof program packet to hand them (you can always summaries during a brief or meeting, but have the information available).
As for your outline, I would recommend you compile an exact skill level ability, rules and policy to govern the SSA. The reason for this is so that you have an ability to say “this was the rules, you were counseled on them and you broke them and that is why you are out” vs giving someone the boot and that person going up the CoC feeling they have an argument. If you don’t have that emplaced for not only the SSA but also the probation period, I can see you or the next section leader taking some heat. I can also see a SSA program being dropped if an IG or congressional gets filed. It would be hard for a CoC to explain why Pvt Snuff got booted from his sniper position b/c he did not meet the requirements of a program that is not common practice across the Army. So the more professional it is, the more ability you have to keep it around and spread it out to other units.
Also with the idea that the SSA is not a “training” program and purely a selection process, I would not focus so much on Sniper skill sets or even Infantry skill sets, but I would focus on stress, confusion and flexibility. Look to evaluate their ability to perform duties on their own, to remain disciplined even when those duties are boring and otherwise unexciting. Looking more to evaluate their ability to stay focused during times where their mind wants to wonder and sleep is starting to kick in. However, I personally believe you would have more success and better results if you shifted from a focus of only assessing and selecting, by adding training and the probation as part of the actual SSA.
This is just a general format for basic description, again developing a policy, standards of conduct and performance, a macro/micro schedule and program of instruction would be in your best interest IMO. I am not saying you have to use this, pick from it what you want and I’ll help you with what I can. The key is to make it as professional as possible and to adjust the program to fit the needs of the unit and meet the commander’s intent, while getting what you want out of it. When you brief the command, or request support either through policy memos, or through actual service and support, it’s better to have a bullet proof program packet to hand them (you can always summaries during a brief or meeting, but have the information available).
the entire Brigade is behind me, along with all the CSM's, as our OPS CSM is an SF/Sotic qualifed and fully endorses what I have planned. The thing is, pvt snuffy or anyone cant really argue this through anyone, they either meet requirements or fail to, backed by counselings. The things is, to be in a Sniper section, you have to have above all, the Co's reccomendation, that alone, although heavily biased with my (section leaders) opinion, is enough to keep or kick anyone out of the section.
as for the selection part, time hacks are going to be critical, every event will be doable if maximum effort is put forth. skill level? they need to be at least level 2, or have the aptitude to be so. think about it, its national guard, time is our biggest constraint. there is no time to spend re-teaching level 1 stuff. Patrols, radios, OPORDS, MEDEVAC,reaction drills, all needs to be down firm or else we have to spend time on that. basically, my YTC reflects 6 months of sniper specific training,4 months of integrated training, and then AT, and 1 december/holiday drill. we need to maximize that time, with minimal time going over urban patrolling tactics to integrate back into scouts who do it every drill.
i dont "need" these spots filled, i was only heavily urged to hold another slection. whether any fit is another story. the only training, that will take place is patrols, to ensure everyone is fresh, and then Range E and sketchs as those are short classes, easy to identify progress, but critical to abilities for any sniper.
as for the selection part, time hacks are going to be critical, every event will be doable if maximum effort is put forth. skill level? they need to be at least level 2, or have the aptitude to be so. think about it, its national guard, time is our biggest constraint. there is no time to spend re-teaching level 1 stuff. Patrols, radios, OPORDS, MEDEVAC,reaction drills, all needs to be down firm or else we have to spend time on that. basically, my YTC reflects 6 months of sniper specific training,4 months of integrated training, and then AT, and 1 december/holiday drill. we need to maximize that time, with minimal time going over urban patrolling tactics to integrate back into scouts who do it every drill.
i dont "need" these spots filled, i was only heavily urged to hold another slection. whether any fit is another story. the only training, that will take place is patrols, to ensure everyone is fresh, and then Range E and sketchs as those are short classes, easy to identify progress, but critical to abilities for any sniper.
Good luck!:cool:
My section was recently supposed to do a similar selection process since the majority of our B4 guys ETSing and the remainder of us who will be deploying in a year are either non-qualed walk ons or non-deployed B4's. I like your program outline, but I have a few questions, and some suggestions.
Questions; One) How are you managing to do a 4 day selection? Are you doing it as part of AT? Two) Does the unit coding actually allow 19D to fill the slots w/o going to 11B MOSQ?
The suggestions are mostly on ways to cut down the selection. Part of the reason for this is to allow it to be done on a standard MUTA 5 and to increase your pool of applicants, because I think your expectations from the recruiting pool of one NG mechanized brigade may be a touch unrealistic. I think the APFT (or doing an RPFT) would cut down on the need for the obstacle course (I like the chin-ups/pull ups requirement, since it is a better test of functional upper body strength then the push-up). The range estimation and field sketches are skills mostly learned in section, so why make them part of selection? The patrol test and room clearing portion could be covered by requiring 2-3 years on the line as a pre-requisite and doing a written infantry skills test. Just my $0.02.
Reed
P.S. I will be sharing your outline with my section sergeant to give him ideas.
Questions; One) How are you managing to do a 4 day selection? Are you doing it as part of AT? Two) Does the unit coding actually allow 19D to fill the slots w/o going to 11B MOSQ?
The suggestions are mostly on ways to cut down the selection. Part of the reason for this is to allow it to be done on a standard MUTA 5 and to increase your pool of applicants, because I think your expectations from the recruiting pool of one NG mechanized brigade may be a touch unrealistic. I think the APFT (or doing an RPFT) would cut down on the need for the obstacle course (I like the chin-ups/pull ups requirement, since it is a better test of functional upper body strength then the push-up). The range estimation and field sketches are skills mostly learned in section, so why make them part of selection? The patrol test and room clearing portion could be covered by requiring 2-3 years on the line as a pre-requisite and doing a written infantry skills test. Just my $0.02.
Reed
P.S. I will be sharing your outline with my section sergeant to give him ideas.
no problem, ive been revising it for a while.
4 day is because we can take drill dates off the end of the year. Its originally a Muta 5, so we just add days from say sept that would be regular m4 qual or something
I dont deal with 19D as we are light infantry,so its not an issue ive encountered
we are not mechanized so the whole BN is our pool. I dont expect that many to show up once they see the actual pre-req's. the first year i had about 20. 10 of those could barely meet army standards in general. As the section came together and people saw who was doing it, and what we were doing. By that i mean just actually training, it motivated a lot of guys. friends of friends from the other companies i did pool from are constantly askign when the nest try-out will be, so im hoping its a good one. The list is not just to fill my vacancies, but establish a list should anyone want to move out and the spot can be filled.
APFT is first so that we can confirm its real and not pencil whipped and to standard, also wanna guage how much effort they put forth to score in top % or save energy for later in the training
obstacle course because an APFT is 17 minutes at most, and does not display real athleticism
range E and sketches are classes that will be taught yes, but i want to know if they can grasp it. if 5 of them can, and others cant, well, those 5 have an advantage in that area.
patrolling and room clearing is also going to have a refresher course. sniper is an advanced skill. I dont have time to reteach basics. I found out the hardway, that 1 pvt with 3 months in, was just as shitty as a SPC with almost 3 years, or vice versa.. its not about a 1 time test, its about guaging the ability to grasp the new concepts. more imprtantly, i want guys that can think AND listen.
but im all ears if you have any other suggestions or questions.
BTW, your situation sounds very similar to another BN here...i wonder if your part of our sister Bn..
4 day is because we can take drill dates off the end of the year. Its originally a Muta 5, so we just add days from say sept that would be regular m4 qual or something
I dont deal with 19D as we are light infantry,so its not an issue ive encountered
we are not mechanized so the whole BN is our pool. I dont expect that many to show up once they see the actual pre-req's. the first year i had about 20. 10 of those could barely meet army standards in general. As the section came together and people saw who was doing it, and what we were doing. By that i mean just actually training, it motivated a lot of guys. friends of friends from the other companies i did pool from are constantly askign when the nest try-out will be, so im hoping its a good one. The list is not just to fill my vacancies, but establish a list should anyone want to move out and the spot can be filled.
APFT is first so that we can confirm its real and not pencil whipped and to standard, also wanna guage how much effort they put forth to score in top % or save energy for later in the training
obstacle course because an APFT is 17 minutes at most, and does not display real athleticism
range E and sketches are classes that will be taught yes, but i want to know if they can grasp it. if 5 of them can, and others cant, well, those 5 have an advantage in that area.
patrolling and room clearing is also going to have a refresher course. sniper is an advanced skill. I dont have time to reteach basics. I found out the hardway, that 1 pvt with 3 months in, was just as shitty as a SPC with almost 3 years, or vice versa.. its not about a 1 time test, its about guaging the ability to grasp the new concepts. more imprtantly, i want guys that can think AND listen.
but im all ears if you have any other suggestions or questions.
BTW, your situation sounds very similar to another BN here...i wonder if your part of our sister Bn..
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2010
- Messages
- 2,186
Not to knock anyone, but a general knock to the sniper training world in general- range estimation is lame, it's really only relevant to calling for fire. If I am shooting at a target, I am looking at it through a scope. It takes me 2 seconds to take a shot within 600m (using the 10 or 12 inch drill), and maybe 10 total to make a deliberate shot out to the max effective range of whatever system I am using. The only time estimating range is ever in question is for a head shot with my 100mZ, you can hit a 9" target off of a 100m zero out to 220m. You can work up a similar equation for torso hits, but it's just as fast to mil him from shoulders to head and subtract from 10(12" drill).
So, realistically, the only time I see range E as being a factor is when I see someone's head only. Then it's simply a yes or no question as to whether or not it's within 220m- if yes, the call is center, if no, it's a deliberate engagement on the computer or data book.
I'm done, carry on with the constructive conversation that I rudely interrupted.
So, realistically, the only time I see range E as being a factor is when I see someone's head only. Then it's simply a yes or no question as to whether or not it's within 220m- if yes, the call is center, if no, it's a deliberate engagement on the computer or data book.
I'm done, carry on with the constructive conversation that I rudely interrupted.
Sorry LM, I am having a hard time wrapping my head around what kind of sniper section you are in and how large your recruitment pool is. So, even though the NJNG page still lists your Battalion as mechanized, I did find that they had been converted to light infantry in '08 as was your "sister" battalion. Now in an ICBT snipers are in the RSTA. In a HBCT the sniper section is in the HHC of the infantry battalion. So you have a sniper section that is a battalion, not a brigade asset? Your sister battalion in the same brigade also has snipers? Does the 50th BCT have a RSTA? Do you have battalion scout platoons that you are also competing with for good personel?
PM sent
I think it definitely has merit for someone that has informal training and you are really trying to limit the amount vying for a spot on team. Some people on here think that shooting skills with an M4 are needed to get a slot. For me personally I only qualified expert once before attending school but have since missed no more than one shot on any quality. I think it is ideal to have them utilize skills which truly limit the amount of candidates. I.e. range estimation and unknown distance fire. The pt can knock people out but should not be your driving factor as much is dropped from school anyways. If pt is involved I found it ideal to make it functional to a mission such as an extended mission Ruck with full combat gear....either way good luck with this
cybersniper
Unverified
I have never used the peer system but looks very interesting. How do you avoid the sniper students to rate ALL their comrades "over" their true performance due to empathy instead of performace alone?
Do you just take it and average?
Very interesting method.
Thanks
ed
Do you just take it and average?
Very interesting method.
Thanks
ed
Similar threads
