Fuck Pakistan.
The Afghanistan and Pakistan Thread
- Thread starter AWP
- Start date
Paki made bullets and knives... Y'all fuckers
bananarepublic
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this thread is fun to read
all the hate
lol
all the hate
lol
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2012
- Messages
- 12,902
It would be more fun to read your intro thread.
Please make that your next post.
@bananarepublic , welcome to the site. All new users are required to make an introduction post. Below is a link to that forum. You can use some other members' examples to see how that post should be crafted.
Introductions
A Christian woman in Pakistan who was sentenced to death for "blasphemy" is going free after 8 years in solitary:
Asia Bibi: Pakistan court overturns blasphemy death sentence
Asia Bibi: Pakistan court overturns blasphemy death sentence
From ^^^^^
"Christian farm labourer Bibi, a 47-year-old mother of five, was sentenced to hang for blasphemy in 2010. She had angered fellow Muslim farm workers by taking a sip of water from a cup she had fetched for them on a hot day. When they demanded she convert to Islam, she refused, prompting a mob to later allege that she had insulted the prophet Mohammed."
Islam. Such a tolerant and peace-loving religion. And Pakistan, an enlightened democracy if ever there was one. She only had to sit on death row nine years. Piece of cake.
We need to keep fighting radical Islam. If it takes 500 years, we need to eradicate these medieval fucks from the planet.
"Christian farm labourer Bibi, a 47-year-old mother of five, was sentenced to hang for blasphemy in 2010. She had angered fellow Muslim farm workers by taking a sip of water from a cup she had fetched for them on a hot day. When they demanded she convert to Islam, she refused, prompting a mob to later allege that she had insulted the prophet Mohammed."
Islam. Such a tolerant and peace-loving religion. And Pakistan, an enlightened democracy if ever there was one. She only had to sit on death row nine years. Piece of cake.
We need to keep fighting radical Islam. If it takes 500 years, we need to eradicate these medieval fucks from the planet.
Devildoc
Verified Military
Pakistan...Beirut...Tehran....once upon a time beautiful, thriving, pro-west places...safe for tourists and locals regardless of religion. Not no more.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
RIP Major Brent Taylor, also a Mayor from Utah. Graduate of Chandler High School here in Arizona. KIA in a Green on Blue: https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/05/opinions/what-slain-utah-mayor-wanted-for-america-lemmon/index.html
"Everyone in the know" has been running these endless wars in the middle East for 30 years and have gotten nowhere. Maybe it is time for a different approach i.e. pullout, and let the chips fall where they may.
Topkick
Verified Military
Have we ever really tried it? It hasn't worked with undeveloped or smaller countries, those which can be bullied, but we are a power capable of defending ourselves. We would probably be tested again (See Pearl Harbor) but, imo, we are sure to be tested on our current policy. A lot people hate us because we are not isolated enough.
Edited to add: l am not advocating anything. I don't pretend to have an answer. It's very complicated. What concerns me most is that there is no endstate. Do we pull out or should containment be our plan until forever?
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D
Deleted member 2517
Guest
So we pull out, and then Russia stops dropping WMDs on civilians on behalf of Asad? ISIS-K will definitely leave Afghanistan if we do... and the Chinese won’t begin to move in and rape the resources of AFG... its a complicated world, and the people “in the know” understand that, unlike Cadet BoneSpur.
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
If you don't think the POTUS has an understanding of the complicated world, the engagement that he's executed in certain places has done something in SK/NK that no one else has been able to do.
I'd certainly like to see the Chinese try that, the amount of blood and treasure they'd need to invest in Afghanistan to extract a single ounce of precious metals is pretty high. It would look similar to an invasion than anything else, eventually they would face an insurgency that would bleed them out over time. It's much cheaper for China to work with their current African partners than to touch Afghanistan. It's time we've left, 17 years and still the same shithole.
In Syria we should have never entered the fray, but it's been 6 years of various involvement. Think about that:
Afghanistan-17 yrs
Iraq-15 yrs
Syria-6 yrs
At some point we have to bring it all home and press the reset button.
I'd certainly like to see the Chinese try that, the amount of blood and treasure they'd need to invest in Afghanistan to extract a single ounce of precious metals is pretty high. It would look similar to an invasion than anything else, eventually they would face an insurgency that would bleed them out over time. It's much cheaper for China to work with their current African partners than to touch Afghanistan. It's time we've left, 17 years and still the same shithole.
In Syria we should have never entered the fray, but it's been 6 years of various involvement. Think about that:
Afghanistan-17 yrs
Iraq-15 yrs
Syria-6 yrs
At some point we have to bring it all home and press the reset button.
D
Deleted member 2517
Guest
I don’t think you understand the strategic importance of AFG. We border (surround) Iran when we have troops in AFG and IZ. We have a land border with China and all the Central Asian states that have an ever growing ISIS threat within them. And we have a means of going into Pakistan when needed. Add to that the fact we are keeping that region from becoming a pre-2001 free for all of ISIS and TB training camps, it’s too important to just turn and run.
The more important issue for me is the number of people we have lost to only go and turn tale and run- yet again. I’m for not getting involved in shit we don’t need to, but once we commit we need to stay committed. I’m tired of us doing the same play book since Vietnam.
If you don’t think China will work a deal with the TB (who they already have supplied with their old weapons), and whatever remnants of the AFG gov will be standing, then you really don’t know how that place works. They won’t invade, they’ll use their industry and state run enterprises do exactly what they’ve done in Africa.
In regards to Syria, we are essentially letting Russia, Turkey and Iran run wild when we leave. The Kurds, our only worthwhile allies outside of Israel, will be absolutely murdered by Erdogan and his regime. Russia will maintain their ability to stage from Syria and Iran will have a pathway to the Med to continue actions against Israel.
These actions help everyone but our allies. POTUS only seems to do what makes Putin pleased, the rest be damned.
Side note- if we are worrying about retention, get ready for a new nightmare scenario for every re-up NCO in SOCOM. No one wants to be in a peace time military. America may be tired of wars, but the military isn’t. The people doing the fighting don’t want this.
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ThunderHorse
Verified Military
I guess we have different world views and how we should invest our blood and treasure. Overall though, our "grand strategy" has been all fucked up since Bush left office. Under the Bush Administration, it was pretty clear where we were trying to swing our dick and for what aims. Under the Obama administration I had no idea what we were doing and what our aims were other than apologizing for everything...not a whole lot "support" there.
On your last note, this is why we definitely have civilian control of the military..."let's just keep fighting, that's why we signed up". It's not our choice, yes we signed up to do a certain thing, but sometimes it's time to come home and reset the whole thing.
Also...aren't you about to kick out a bunch of people?
This is pure gold. Here's your $200 and please pass Go with my compliments, sir.
Topkick
Verified Military
I agree. The tough question is... without an endstate to a perpetual war, how do we ensure that they didn't give their lives in vain? How many more fall before we pull out because we still have not met an objective we never really had? You can't kill the ideology.
D
Deleted member 2517
Guest
Yeah... good guys, with lots of deployments and experience, who will we need when the next war (with a near peer) kicks off... as far as what we signed up to do, I’d say we had very different motivations. I guess some of us want to go to war and some of us just wanted free college. To each their own.I guess we have different world views and how we should invest our blood and treasure. Overall though, our "grand strategy" has been all fucked up since Bush left office. Under the Bush Administration, it was pretty clear where we were trying to swing our dick and for what aims. Under the Obama administration I had no idea what we were doing and what our aims were other than apologizing for everything...not a whole lot "support" there.
On your last note, this is why we definitely have civilian control of the military..."let's just keep fighting, that's why we signed up". It's not our choice, yes we signed up to do a certain thing, but sometimes it's time to come home and reset the whole thing.
Also...aren't you about to kick out a bunch of people?
ThunderHorse
Verified Military
My motivations were very simple: service and duty. Where and when...Uncle Sam said.
I look at Afghanistan through a long lens of history. I was at the ESM-St Cyr Irregular Warfare Conference in 2009, a British Armored unit had just returned and were going over their experiences during deployment, following their presentation a British Brigadier had a presentation through VTC and stated that everyone in the coalition knew it was a 20 year project. Have we executed that? Just four months late Obama stated what we were about to do when he made his first major FP speech at West Point...when he said we'd surge, it almost looked like Ike Hall was gonna erupt in cheers...and then he said we'd begin our withdrawal in less than 18 months.
My views have shifted over time on the hows and whats and where were the mistakes. But knowing Afghanistan's history and ours, the occupation model we used was incorrect. The occupation models for us that have worked were Post-WWII. We didn't execute those. Basically military government for roughly ten years, rebuild infrastructure and slowly cede Democratric control back to the Afghans (Germans/Japanese at that time), large and permanent military presence for 50 years. The difference between Afghanistan and those two places were the literacy rates and histories of centralized government.
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