SpongeBob*24
Verified Military
The Afghanistan and Pakistan Thread
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Topkick
Verified Military
We actually fought wars before the media was allowed to dictate our ROE.Agree with sober @AWP
I want us to stay in AFG, I do, This area is so strategically important we SHOULD stay....However We have sucked at ROE since 2003 and don't have balls so we NEED to leave until we can MAN up!!!!!
My opinion and only my opinion...I haven't been there in a minute!!!!!!
Agree with sober @AWP
I want us to stay in AFG, I do, This area is so strategically important we SHOULD stay....However We have sucked at ROE since 2003 and don't have balls so we NEED to leave until we can MAN up!!!!!
My opinion and only my opinion...I haven't been there in a minute!!!!!!
As soon as ISAF was in theatre. Letting allies that wouldn't let their troops leave the wire, influence the mission and ROE. They might as well went home.
Kraut783
SOF Support
So true Rack!
You know the campaign is on the wrong course when you return to Bagram at the end of '02 and the gate is being manned by MP's instead of Infantry and the MP says "be sure and use your seatbelt when on base" wtf?!?!
You know the campaign is on the wrong course when you return to Bagram at the end of '02 and the gate is being manned by MP's instead of Infantry and the MP says "be sure and use your seatbelt when on base" wtf?!?!
ISAF = I Suck At Fighting
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@Kraut783 Dear lord...how times have changed.
However, I do remember coming out of the field after living in a HMMV for 6 months and a senior NCO was ripping us in the chow line for gnarley boots and such. I was vehicle security/60 gunner, so my BDUs all had the ass worn through to the first pant layer and slightly beyond from swinging on the turret sling. REMF-itis can strike anywhere, almost every politician has it. It got my friend killed on March 18th 1991 and I think about the beauraucy that led to his death everyday.
An example of how times have changed...look up Operation ‘Bulldozer’, we buried the enemy alive in a trench complex near the Kuwaiti oil fields. When the OIC was questioned he said “ it would’ve been a lot worse if I had my men clean out the trenches with bayonets.”
I was on a 3 man patrol that went through the area about a week or so later. The desert dogs and wind had already gotten to what looked like a busted up picket fence sticking out of the sand. It was arms, legs, hands and faces. They were the enemy and treated the Kuwaiti citizens very poorly, so we didn’t bat an eye.
I thank my lucky stars that Gen. Schwarzkopf (R.I.P) kept the politicians out of my war, it could have been much more challenging for everyone. In 2003 I was a civilian when we went back to that part of the world, and this is where I began realizing a long march to my present condition which is a nice PTS diagnosis. I didn’t want those wars to end in any other way except how it ended for us back in 91.
Sometimes I feel that I should’ve just said fuck it and re-enlisted for OEF and OIF, who knows.
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Topkick
Verified Military
But the media was there and got in our shit...i.e. using the Highway of Death (their words) to try and portray the US military as evil. These actions greatly influence future ROE.
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@Topkick Yeah, the media did their best to stir the shit. But, the war ended shortly after that engagement. More vehicles died than Iraqi soldiers on HWY 60.
But now in Asscrackistan the ROE, and back to back deployments are rough, to say the least.
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Topkick
Verified Military
Very true. It was sensationalized by taking photos of the few dead soldiers from different angles and posting them everywhere for everyone to see.
I understand the importance of the media. It can be used to garner support for the troops and the mission, but its usually used to "break the big story." Regardless of the great work we all do, a few pics of a couple of John J Rambo's being douchebags is what usually dominates the news and it has a huge effect on our ROE. Its what makes us play nice.
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@Topkick Sad but true. We had a very strict platoon level policy on that shit.
Back to Afghanistan and Pakistan though. I have mixed feelings about the most recent withdrawal, mainly because I’m not able to, or privy to see the whole picture. It’s also distorted now that the media has spun Gen. Mattis’s resignation. @AWP has shed some light regarding our losing momentum and winning would mean committing to an invasion of a nuclear power i.e. Pakistan in order to properly end it.
I understand the tactical advantage of Afghanistan and IMHO as a superpower we can stay there is long as we want. However, interests are changing and we are running out of cards to play when it comes to justifying our stay.
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Turks always talk the talk.
Their sassy Erdogan has threatened to flood Germany with IDPs over political disputes and all his reckless childish rhetoric has achieved thus far is his involuntary but inevitable visit to Berlin and virtualy pleading for mercy, aid and continuation of trade. Now his country is facing bankruptcy.
Our Meatheads were doing speed traps on JBad Road in Kabul in late 03. Also giving "tickets" through our CoC for "aggressive" driving, like forcing our way through roundabouts and the sea of people downtown.
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@RackMaster That’s terrible. The smart play is to keep MSRs and convoys safe. Battlefield Circulation Control & MSR/Convoy Security. And before that Hasty Route Reconnaissance, way ahead of main elements, because that is an MPs duty in the field. Maybe we wouldn’t have so many IEDs planted if we actually utilized our MPs (Multi-Purpose) to do their field mission instead of writing fucking tickets! You know how many tickets I wrote in nine months? Zero...
Instead, we watched the MSRs like hawks 24/7 from a discreet distance, used nightvision and patrolled relentlessly. They couldn’t even get a roadside grenade with the pin out wedged against a tire rim by us. However, we still called MEDVAC every goddamn day because some civilian or soldiers from multiple armies bought the farm in all sorts of insane crashes...Everyday... but nobody died because we weren’t doing the appropriate job and instead writing tickets.
This is what happens when things like ROE get cluster fucked and wars get protracted far more than need be...You get fucking traffic tickets.
Sorry, but hearing this really chaps my ass.
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They couldn’t take pictures of the 20,000 plus killed in 45 days. Because the flyboys blew them into a fine fucking mist
By '04 they would stand at the four corners on BAF, calling out people for uniform infractions during morning PT. '05, they began enforcing tickets for a failure to wear full PPE when operating a Gator.
I Saw Americans Fighting. The Commonwealth proved to be the exception, but the others...
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@AWP This is blowing my mind...unreal. The brass had to put these guys up to this. No slight against officers, it just smacks of political dog and pony bullshit rolling downhill. “We’re rebuilding a country” so let’s make believe that if we have MPs doing garrison shit in a combat AO everyone will feel like it’s Mayberry...somebody gimme a drink. Please!
@racing_kitty Thats funny. Didn’t know that was the field expedient acroymn for ISAF. Every war has its lackluster troops, ours was the Kuwaiti Army, they weren’t half assed, they were quarterassed!
While I don't think this in indicative of the MP corps as a whole, a funny vignette:
'Bout 2014, I see an MP's Hilux pulled over by a fence on the back side of Bagram. Blue lights flashing, this is nothing new for that section or time of the morning (0130L). I'd see them inspecting the fence or something, no biggie. That morning, I saw one soldier standing in the middle of the road, Green Beans cup in hand, kicking at the dirt. I slowed down, but that was it. As I passed him he started frantically waving me down. I stopped. My rough recollection of the exchange:
"Didn't you see me?"
Yes, I did.
"Why didn't you stop?"
I have to stop for a soldier standing in the road, coffee cup in hand, no flashlight, no vest, ignoring the approaching vehicle, no weapon, nothing?
"You didn't see the lights?"
I did, but this didn't look like any checkpoint Ive ever seen.
"Sir, you need to respect the blue lights."
"Respect the blue lights"....Toolbag.
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@AWP Thats a goodie!
Here’s one for you...
After months in the field some of us got 3 days leave on “The Love Boat.” It was a ship that was docked for all military on leave, basically an FTX in seeking to destroy our livers. Anyway, after one very drunken evening on this tub I stumbled across an MP who was an LT. I was hungry and had a chip on my shoulder about this LT MP guarding a cruise freakin ship, knowing full well that I was headed back to, a GP medium tent with a sand floor.
ME: “LT, would it be too much trouble if you opened up the galley so me ‘n’ my battle buddy can make a sandwich?” I knew he wouldn’t likely oblige, but I didn’t expect the answer I got.
LT: (in a very condescending voice) “If you haven’t noticed soldier, dining facility hours are over”
...Now I’m hungry, drunk, throughly pissed off and I was short.
ME (sarcastic): “Ok LT, thanks for looking out for your troops, why don’t you come out to the field with us, we’ll show you the ropes.”
He didn’t look so smug after that and nothing came of it. We stumbled off safe in knowing the worst that could happen is we’d be sent to SWA, oh shit, we’re already here.
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