The Afghanistan and Pakistan Thread

The article is from today's Wall Street Journal - just reading it had my head pounding with frustration - cannot imagine what the guys living this must be feeling...

LINK TO WSJ ARTICLE

The whole article is 11 pages; since not everyone has access to WSJ I converted it to PDF and attached it below.

Afghan War Rules Leave U.S. Troops Wondering When It’s OK to Shoot

U.S. is no longer at war with Taliban, so Special Forces remaining in Afghanistan have to weigh every situation to decide whether striking them is justified

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan—U.S. spy drones had no trouble spotting the Taliban fighters. There were more than 20 figures snaking through sparsely wooded hills, trying to outflank the Afghan government commandos in the village below.

In the starry darkness overhead, American helicopters loitered armed with precision-guided missiles, along with a flying gunship capable of drenching the area with cannon-fire. It would have been a hard shot to miss.

But before they could fire, the Americans knew they would have to get past the lawyers.

In the amorphous twilight of the Afghan war, it isn’t enough to draw a bead on the enemy. Before they shoot, U.S. troops have to navigate a tricky legal and political question: When is it OK for them to kill Taliban?

The operation late last month in Elbak, a flyspeck village in Kandahar province, exposed the complexity of implementing President Barack Obama’s Afghan strategy in the mud-brick villages, steep mountains and vast poppy fields where the combat takes place. With their Afghan allies walking into a possible ambush that night, U.S. commanders, monitoring video feeds and radio traffic miles from the front, had to judge whether enemy fighters who weren’t actually fighting constituted an imminent threat.


- Rest of article attached via PDF
 

Attachments

just reading it had my head pounding with frustration - cannot imagine what the guys living this must be feeling...

I just want to point out this was the norm for conventional forces going back to at least 2005. I pretty sure SF units have had the same restrictions for at least a few years.

2013 or 2014 we had a Kiowa shot up within a few miles of Bagram. The trail helo could see the fire but for some reason couldn't identify a weapon at the POO (a creekbed). He requested permission to fire on these 2-3 guys chilling at the site of the ground fire. The response?

"They might be farmers," request denied.

To this day we have a/c getting shot up. If the crew can't PID a shooter w/ weapon they can't return fire. "Recently" we've had two Apaches shot up and they couldn't return fire. One took a round through the bottom of the fuselage. Armored tub around the cockpit for the win.
 
I'd have to say some of the things I've been a part of, witnessed and overheard in conversations recently have been..... interesting.

While there is no war here officially the conflict is definitely still ongoing.

Honestly, the best enabler a team can have these days is an ROE/legal specialist. What's more is that we don't even have it as bad as our international partners who are only allowed to respond to hostile fire with weapons of the same or lesser caliber than the ones they're being shot at with.

Imagine the following if you would. You're pinned down in an open field by PKM and RPG fire coming from bunkers less than 100 meters away; the occupants of which are audibly screaming "allahu akhbar". Your request for air assets was just answered with the question, "Do you really need to be that aggressive at the moment?"

What do you do? How do you respond to that?

I agree with tailoring back the assets and logistical support we provide to the Afghans. A reliance has been put on that support,and at some point that addiction has to be kicked. However, if coalition forces are deemed necessary to partner ANSF on operations shouldn't that directive be likewise partnered with trust and flexibility from the people that issued that directive?
 
I agree with tailoring back the assets and logistical support we provide to the Afghans. A reliance has been put on that support,and at some point that addiction has to be kicked. However, if coalition forces are deemed necessary to partner ANSF on operations shouldn't that directive be likewise partnered with trust and flexibility from the people that issued that directive?

In my war, we called "tailoring back the assets" Vietnamization. In other words, we bug out in pre-planned gradients and you pick up the slack. Only there won't be any flexibility because we have a schedule for disengagement that is carved in stone so when Date X arrives certain assets will rotate whether you need them or not. And good luck with that arrangement.
 
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Um, a story about just ONE? Do you see the kind of shit these clowns in PK pull.

Militant with US bounty on his head walks free in Pakistan | Fox News

LAHORE, Pakistan – The United States has put a $10 million bounty on his head, labeling him a terrorist. He is one of the most wanted men in India. Yet, Hafiz Saeed walks free in his home country of Pakistan, denouncing Washington and New Delhi in public speeches.

Now the man identified by the U.S. as a founding member of the Lashkar-e-Taiba militant group is weighing in on the flare-up of violence in Kashmir, the mountainous region divided between Pakistani and Indian control, where dozens have died in clashes with protesters after Indian security forces killed a top rebel leader.

#PizzaCutter
 
2013 or 2014 we had a Kiowa shot up within a few miles of Bagram. The trail helo could see the fire but for some reason couldn't identify a weapon at the POO (a creekbed). He requested permission to fire on these 2-3 guys chilling at the site of the ground fire. The response?

"They might be farmers," request denied.

Are you talking about the Kiowa in Kapisa near FOB Kutsbach in Feb 2013?
 
Are you talking about the Kiowa in Kapisa near FOB Kutsbach in Feb 2013?

They never left the 10 mile "bubble" controlled by the Bagram tower according to the controllers. This was 2013 or 2014 I believe but the dates are starting to run together. Maybe we're talking about the same incident, but as described to me there might be two similar incidents. There was a downed UAV and the -64's hovering nearby couldn't fire on the looters because "they might be farmers." Like "one team, one fight", as soon as you hear it you know some stupid shit's about to happen.
 
They never left the 10 mile "bubble" controlled by the Bagram tower according to the controllers. This was 2013 or 2014 I believe but the dates are starting to run together. Maybe we're talking about the same incident, but as described to me there might be two similar incidents. There was a downed UAV and the -64's hovering nearby couldn't fire on the looters because "they might be farmers." Like "one team, one fight", as soon as you hear it you know some stupid shit's about to happen.

Must be different. A pair was supporting us when the lead was shot down by a a fuck ton of PKM and our split team was closer, so we QRF'd.

The Talibs tried to use the wreckage as bait...foolish plan. I have some helmet cam vids somewhere.
 
Must be different. A pair was supporting us when the lead was shot down by a a fuck ton of PKM and our split team was closer, so we QRF'd.

The Talibs tried to use the wreckage as bait...foolish plan. I have some helmet cam vids somewhere.

Definitely not the same deal. These guys took fire and RTB'ed, landing within minutes. No one was shot down. Lead was damaged but had a controlled landing.
 
1470430917238.jpg
Definitely not the same deal. These guys took fire and RTB'ed, landing within minutes. No one was shot down. Lead was damaged but had a controlled landing.

Gimme a week to sober up...

http://a57.foxnews.com/images.foxne...0.img.jpg/876/493/1470430917238.jpg?ve=1&tl=1
 
The FOUO briefing about Kunduz is out on the AFSOC sharepoint for those of you with access. It's a good brief. Doesn't reveal anything earth-shattering, but adds some more details that definitely help paint a more clear picture. Bottom line remains the same, a lot of people fucked up. Which is almost always the case in these types of incidents. The aircrew, JTAC, and GFC all had chances to prevent this from happening, and didn't.
 
Cool.....back on this.....they cannot be held accountable because then that creates what is called "second guessing!":-"

Now we have a weak upper approval process for strikes....aka an O-8 has to approve an O-4 TGT!O_o
Or the A/C won't say what it sees...maybe that was a possible probable maybe weapon......:-o

Well done!!!!:thumbsdown:
 
This is shocking, shocking I say!

Russia may be aiding Taliban in Afghanistan, top US general says

"I've seen the influence of Russia of late, increased influence in terms of association and perhaps even supply to the Taliban," Army Gen. Curtis Scaparrotti, the head of the U.S. military's European Command and the Supreme Allied Commander for NATO, told the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Russia and America involved in Afghanistan? I swear I've heard this story before.

Officials say Iran and Pakistan have also lent support to the Taliban in the past year.

The last year?!?!?!?!? Are you shitting me? The last YEAR? How about "since the 90's" as a more realistic estimate. Damn, we've turned such a blind eye to those two shitty, should-be-salted-off-the-earth countries it is sickening. All of our dead and we barely recognize one of the root causes for our failure.
 
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