Don't play the national anthem at football games. The various renditions usually suck anyway. Just play the fuckin game.
The NFL, Kneeling, Ratings, and the Flag
- Thread starter Ooh-Rah
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I would argue that both accomplished change. It's a matter of scope and immediacy.
The charity and donations create immediate change, albeit on a micro level.
The protests, however, have added a prominent voice to the years-long national conversation about the nexus of race and policing in America. I wouldn't doubt that there's probably quite a few people in America who didn't give a hoot about black activism until they saw Kaepernick take a stand (or knee, in this case). In that case, the change he created was far, far broader although the effects are not felt immediately. But change was still achieved, and that's what's important.
policemedic
Verified SWAT
Do you think that if we adopted a new national anthem with different lyrics the protests would stop?
I posit it has nothing to do with the lyrics.
This is an astute point. 10 million means a lot to me, but probably not that much to an NFL superstar (okay, in all seriousness they probably value 10 million). But let's also consider this: football isn't just Kaepernick's livelihood, it's his entire life. He's been playing this since he was a kid, and it's basically defined his entire existence. It probably sounds silly, but not being signed means that he's really lost that one thing in his life. It's like if you absolutely loved your job in the military and wanted to stay in for forty years, but then you got kicked out without so much as a "Thanks".
It's a superficial comparison, I know, but I don't think it's fair to say that Kaepernick just casually arrived at this decision with nothing on the line.
Kheenbish
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I disagree, I think a great amount of individuals have no idea why he was kneeling or care. I believe more so it piggybacked on a trend that disrespecting the flag and anthem is the "cool" thing to do now that everyone's NFL heroes do it. Although I don't believe this is what was the initial intentions.
I can't remember exactly where it occurred, but the football coach of 8-10 yrs old was having his kids kneel for the anthem, now is that peaceful protest too?
I still don't believe sitting for the anthem was the correct platform for their protest, but I cannot say what is so my answer doesn't have too much backing.
What's the very first question you had when you heard about Kaepernick taking a knee? I guarantee you most people had the exact same question in mind.
"Why's he doing that?"
Like "Hands up, don't shoot?" I was thinking the same thing.
I agree with this. Football is still largely American players, but the other big sports (MLB, NHL, NBA) are more and more filled with players from other countries. Baseball and hockey especially, as they have been using foreign players for a lot longer, and at greater percentages. So I think we can just enjoy the games without having to have the anthem played. I would like to see professional sports leagues adopt a similar stance to the military when it comes to politics. Your personal life is your personal life, but you won't advocate/protest for things while in uniform, or while claiming to represent a specific organization/service.
As to the military presence, it's all about money and PR. I'm sure there are some pretty high ranking individuals that enjoy some nice perks for keeping that train rolling.
Kheenbish
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Honestly no, I didn't care. I had no idea who Kaepernick was, thought it was a fad. I only follow the Lions and how much money we saved this year to pay Stafford.
Sure, you may not have cared, but the litany in the last year of news items, editorials, pundit pieces, speeches, and tweets from the goddamn president of the united states show that a lot of people in America care. It's not just a "trend."
policemedic
Verified SWAT
I thought it was clear why he was doing it. He’s an asshole.
Kheenbish
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Well that brings me to another issue. The rise in taking an entertainers opinion, be it celebrity or professional athlete, like it's the word of God. America seems to be infatuated with the opinions of entertainers.
Social media went crazy this past weekend over NFL players kneeling, positive or negative. Let's just forget about the rest of the world, the Steelers didn't even come out of the locker room.
Seems this has all the ingredients to make Idiocracy, but people want to bitch about President Trump like they aren't the reason he's in office. (Not advocating that he's doing good job)
PCRWizard
Unverified
I always thought that kneeling during the anthem was a reasonably respectful way to protest. He's not yelling, holding anything up, turning away, or saying anything particularly unpatriotic. He's just quietly kneeling during the anthem. I always thought that it was a pretty mature and respectful way to protest. I'm curious as to others thoughts on this.
Either way, I'm done with the NFL. Between free agency and now all this.
Goodell either doesn't know his own rule book, or doesn't care to know. Selective enforcement makes you look like hypocrite with no standards whatsoever. "I don't want to ruffle anybodies feathers, so I' just going to ignore it and maybe it'll just go away" (sic)
Many here in America (And me personally) have always been attracted to pro sports, in whatever form they may be. Auto racing, golf, baseball etc. It's supposed to be enjoyable, like a way to wind down, kick back, relax and enjoy whatever venue it happens to be, whether live and in person, or on the TV. Inject politics into it and use that platform for your sounding board and as far as I'm concerned, you've ruined it, regardless which side of the fence it and you, happen to be.
Goodell either doesn't know his own rule book, or doesn't care to know. Selective enforcement makes you look like hypocrite with no standards whatsoever. "I don't want to ruffle anybodies feathers, so I' just going to ignore it and maybe it'll just go away" (sic)
Many here in America (And me personally) have always been attracted to pro sports, in whatever form they may be. Auto racing, golf, baseball etc. It's supposed to be enjoyable, like a way to wind down, kick back, relax and enjoy whatever venue it happens to be, whether live and in person, or on the TV. Inject politics into it and use that platform for your sounding board and as far as I'm concerned, you've ruined it, regardless which side of the fence it and you, happen to be.
policemedic
Verified SWAT
I would suggest that anyone kneeling to protest a perceived slight to an ethnic group they belong to whilst making millions of dollars is more than a bit disingenuous.
It’s wildly disrespectful to the nation that allows them to live like kings for chasing a ball down a grass field.
We have a changed national anthem with different (less) lyrics. His protest - if you believe him (which I do) - is about police brutality and inequality in the justice system in how black men are treated. The point of the history of the anthem is not that changing it changes the protest - it's that the reverence, history, and import some place in the anthem in order to conclude these players are 'assholes', 'disrespectful', 'spitting on the military', or any of that shit is tragically misplaced. Just because you see a symbol one way doesn't mean those with a different perspective, background, or ideology are obligated to see it the same way.
What exactly makes them disingenuous? Their wealth, their ethnic group, the 'perceived slight'? I think being treated differently by the justice system, being murdered, and being brutalized by the police is more than a 'slight' - whether you think it's only 'perceived' or not. I think that's more than a little disingenuous.
So would you be good with taking out the anthem, the military salutes, and all the other plastic patriotism? Those are, after all, inherently political.
Plastic patriotism? Really?
Know why the Corps never change uniforms in design and scheme? It's called "Tradition." Same with the National Anthem.
I still still love this country, good times and bad, there's no place I'd rather be and know damn well, how thankful I'm not a TCN living in some God forsaken place resembling a hell hole, struggling just to get by and survive torment, hunger and strife.
Whatever man.
TLDR20
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What selective enforcement are you talking about? The meme about the rules stating that players had to stand on the sideline at attention for the anthem? That isn't exactly true.
FACT CHECK: Are NFL Players Required to Stand on the Field During the National Anthem?
At the end of the day the league is ran by the owners. The owners were on the sidelines supporting the players. So, I think the rulers of the league made their decision.
