The NFL, Kneeling, Ratings, and the Flag

[Kheenbish]

Kaepernick actually donates a bunch of his time and money to youth programs while continuing his protest.

Look, America complains about violence from BLM, and protesters blocking traffic, and myriad other things that distract from the message. People say, "Why can't you follow the example of MLK and protest peacefully?" So NFL players go ahead and do that, and people still lose their minds. It's literally the most peaceful form and protest and America still isn't good with it. I mean, what good is a protest if it doesn't generate some measure of controversy? What are black activists supposed to do? Ask nicely?

But Kaepernick decision to kneel, didn't really amount to anything? His decision to start a donation and do charity is what makes changes.

 

[policemedic]

Kaepernick actually donates a bunch of his time and money to youth programs while continuing his protest.

Look, America complains about violence from BLM, and protesters blocking traffic, and myriad other things that distract from the message. People say, "Why can't you follow the example of MLK and protest peacefully?" So NFL players go ahead and do that, and people still lose their minds. It's literally the most peaceful form and protest and America still isn't good with it. I mean, what good is a protest if it doesn't generate some measure of controversy? What are black activists supposed to do? Ask nicely?

They are free to protest. They aren’t free to do so on their employer’s time unless the employer supports their position. In either case, fuck them.

 

[policemedic]

That's why I asked for an accurate characterization of your position. Sorry, it was early and my groggy reading of your post sounded like a very common complaint I heard of Nessa Diab from last year.

But now that you've clarified...I don't really understand what point you're trying to make.

Her posts made perfect sense to me.

 

[policemedic]

Sure, he's not going to be out starving in the street. But most assuredly he's out hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars. That's no small change even when you're an NFL star. Moreover, what is the threshold for when one's financial sacrifice is actually meaningful? @racing_kitty 's initial argument was that their level of protest was just superficial. What is the standard? Do they have to be facing eviction before we believe that they give a shit about their cause?

What’s meaningful loss? That’s to be decided by the individual, certainly. But when one needn’t work a day for the rest of their life, that fact can be factored into what is considered meaningful in my view.

What’s the actual difference between 10 million and 100 million? Either amount allows one to live the life of Riley.

 

[Il Duce]

What is so disrespectful? Seriously?

I wrote this elsewhere and I'll post it here again:

Seeing a lot of people posting about how this kneeling is anti-American, anti-veteran, and anti-military, I have to say this:

What does this has to do with veterans? I am proud to have served a country and upheld a constitution that allows for the protest to take place in the first place. I think my fellow veterans would or should say the same thing.

The armed forces and veterans are not the only ones represented by the anthem or the flag. It should represent all people, if some Americans feel it doesn't, it is their right to kneel, sit, or stay in the locker room.

I think it is the very patriotic to stand for what you believe in to make America a better place for all of our citizens, even if I personally wouldn't participate in this form of protest.

My friend David posted this and I think it applies to another aspect quite well:

"I shouldn't be surprised, but the hypocrisy demonstrated by the "Free speech" crowd is just baffling.

When student groups and society at large deem your words and ideas socially unacceptable, it's a precipitous assault on first amendment rights. The first amendment is inviolable, sacrosanct, and we should be ashamed that we allow this to happen.

When the President of the United States, the chief executive of the nation, makes official statements on behalf of the US Government encouraging a private organization (the NFL) to curtail the first amendment rights of its employees, it's totally not a big deal."

I thought this write-up was a good summary of the pro-protest position: 'To Donald Trump,' by Leland Melvin, former NASA Astronaut and NFL Player

I think it's especially appropriate to quote the portion of the national anthem Francis Scott Key included in the original that we've since excised. Symbols and history don't always mean the same thing to all people and it's kind of nuts to see the same folks arguing for how confederate monuments are not about slavery two weeks ago argue there's only one way to see the national anthem and anybody who doesn't is a dirtbag that dishonors all we fight for.

 

[Gunz]

Don't play the national anthem at football games. The various renditions usually suck anyway. Just play the fuckin game.

 

[Salt USMC]

But Kaepernick decision to kneel, didn't really amount to anything? His decision to start a donation and do charity is what makes changes.

I would argue that both accomplished change. It's a matter of scope and immediacy.

The charity and donations create immediate change, albeit on a micro level.

The protests, however, have added a prominent voice to the years-long national conversation about the nexus of race and policing in America. I wouldn't doubt that there's probably quite a few people in America who didn't give a hoot about black activism until they saw Kaepernick take a stand (or knee, in this case). In that case, the change he created was far, far broader although the effects are not felt immediately. But change was still achieved, and that's what's important.

 

[policemedic]

I thought this write-up was a good summary of the pro-protest position: 'To Donald Trump,' by Leland Melvin, former NASA Astronaut and NFL Player

I think it's especially appropriate to quote the portion of the national anthem Francis Scott Key included in the original that we've since excised. Symbols and history don't always mean the same thing to all people and it's kind of nuts to see the same folks arguing for how confederate monuments are not about slavery two weeks ago argue there's only one way to see the national anthem and anybody who doesn't is a dirtbag that dishonors all we fight for.

Do you think that if we adopted a new national anthem with different lyrics the protests would stop?

I posit it has nothing to do with the lyrics.

 

[Salt USMC]

What’s meaningful loss? That’s to be decided by the individual, certainly. But when one needn’t work a day for the rest of their life, that fact can be factored into what is considered meaningful in my view.

What’s the actual difference between 10 million and 100 million? Either amount allows one to live the life of Riley.

This is an astute point. 10 million means a lot to me, but probably not that much to an NFL superstar (okay, in all seriousness they probably value 10 million). But let's also consider this: football isn't just Kaepernick's livelihood, it's his entire life. He's been playing this since he was a kid, and it's basically defined his entire existence. It probably sounds silly, but not being signed means that he's really lost that one thing in his life. It's like if you absolutely loved your job in the military and wanted to stay in for forty years, but then you got kicked out without so much as a "Thanks".

It's a superficial comparison, I know, but I don't think it's fair to say that Kaepernick just casually arrived at this decision with nothing on the line.

 

[Kheenbish]

I would argue that both accomplished change. It's a matter of scope and immediacy.

The charity and donations create immediate change, albeit on a micro level.

The protests, however, have added a prominent voice to the years-long national conversation about the nexus of race and policing in America. I wouldn't doubt that there's probably quite a few people in America who didn't give a hoot about black activism until they saw Kaepernick take a stand (or knee, in this case). In that case, the change he created was far, far broader although the effects are not felt immediately. But change was still achieved, and that's what's important.

I disagree, I think a great amount of individuals have no idea why he was kneeling or care. I believe more so it piggybacked on a trend that disrespecting the flag and anthem is the "cool" thing to do now that everyone's NFL heroes do it. Although I don't believe this is what was the initial intentions.

I can't remember exactly where it occurred, but the football coach of 8-10 yrs old was having his kids kneel for the anthem, now is that peaceful protest too?

I still don't believe sitting for the anthem was the correct platform for their protest, but I cannot say what is so my answer doesn't have too much backing.

 

[Salt USMC]

I disagree, I think a great amount of individuals have no idea why he was kneeling or care.

What's the very first question you had when you heard about Kaepernick taking a knee? I guarantee you most people had the exact same question in mind.

"Why's he doing that?"

 

[Centermass]

I disagree, I think a great amount of individuals have no idea why he was kneeling or care. I believe more so it piggybacked on a trend that disrespecting the flag and anthem is the "cool" thing to do now that everyone's NFL heroes do it. Although I don't believe this is what was the initial intentions.

I can't remember exactly where it occurred, but the football coach of 8-10 yrs old was having his kids kneel for the anthem, now is that peaceful protest too?

I still don't believe sitting for the anthem was the correct platform for their protest, but I cannot say what is so my answer doesn't have too much backing.

Like "Hands up, don't shoot?" I was thinking the same thing.

 

[CDG]

Don't play the national anthem at football games. The various renditions usually suck anyway. Just play the fuckin game.

I agree with this. Football is still largely American players, but the other big sports (MLB, NHL, NBA) are more and more filled with players from other countries. Baseball and hockey especially, as they have been using foreign players for a lot longer, and at greater percentages. So I think we can just enjoy the games without having to have the anthem played. I would like to see professional sports leagues adopt a similar stance to the military when it comes to politics. Your personal life is your personal life, but you won't advocate/protest for things while in uniform, or while claiming to represent a specific organization/service.

As to the military presence, it's all about money and PR. I'm sure there are some pretty high ranking individuals that enjoy some nice perks for keeping that train rolling.

 

[Kheenbish]

What's the very first question you had when you heard about Kaepernick taking a knee? I guarantee you most people had the exact same question in mind.

"Why's he doing that?"

Honestly no, I didn't care. I had no idea who Kaepernick was, thought it was a fad. I only follow the Lions and how much money we saved this year to pay Stafford.

 

[Salt USMC]

Honestly no, I didn't care. I had no idea who Kaepernick was, thought it was a fad. I only follow the Lions and how much money we saved this year to pay Stafford.

Sure, you may not have cared, but the litany in the last year of news items, editorials, pundit pieces, speeches, and tweets from the goddamn president of the united states show that a lot of people in America care. It's not just a "trend."

 

[policemedic]

What's the very first question you had when you heard about Kaepernick taking a knee? I guarantee you most people had the exact same question in mind.

"Why's he doing that?"

I thought it was clear why he was doing it. He’s an asshole.

 

[Kheenbish]

Sure, you may not have cared, but the litany in the last year of news items, editorials, pundit pieces, speeches, and tweets from the goddamn president of the united states show that a lot of people in America care

Sure, you may not have cared, but the litany in the last year of news items, editorials, pundit pieces, speeches, and tweets from the goddamn president of the united states show that a lot of people in America care

Well that brings me to another issue. The rise in taking an entertainers opinion, be it celebrity or professional athlete, like it's the word of God. America seems to be infatuated with the opinions of entertainers.

Social media went crazy this past weekend over NFL players kneeling, positive or negative. Let's just forget about the rest of the world, the Steelers didn't even come out of the locker room.

Seems this has all the ingredients to make Idiocracy, but people want to bitch about President Trump like they aren't the reason he's in office. (Not advocating that he's doing good job)

 

[PCRWizard]

I always thought that kneeling during the anthem was a reasonably respectful way to protest. He's not yelling, holding anything up, turning away, or saying anything particularly unpatriotic. He's just quietly kneeling during the anthem. I always thought that it was a pretty mature and respectful way to protest. I'm curious as to others thoughts on this.

 

[Centermass]

Either way, I'm done with the NFL. Between free agency and now all this.

Goodell either doesn't know his own rule book, or doesn't care to know. Selective enforcement makes you look like hypocrite with no standards whatsoever. "I don't want to ruffle anybodies feathers, so I' just going to ignore it and maybe it'll just go away" (sic)

Many here in America (And me personally) have always been attracted to pro sports, in whatever form they may be. Auto racing, golf, baseball etc. It's supposed to be enjoyable, like a way to wind down, kick back, relax and enjoy whatever venue it happens to be, whether live and in person, or on the TV. Inject politics into it and use that platform for your sounding board and as far as I'm concerned, you've ruined it, regardless which side of the fence it and you, happen to be.

 

[policemedic]

I always thought that kneeling during the anthem was a reasonably respectful way to protest. He's not yelling, holding anything up, turning away, or saying anything particularly unpatriotic. He's just quietly kneeling during the anthem. I always thought that it was a pretty mature and respectful way to protest. I'm curious as to others thoughts on this.

I would suggest that anyone kneeling to protest a perceived slight to an ethnic group they belong to whilst making millions of dollars is more than a bit disingenuous.

It’s wildly disrespectful to the nation that allows them to live like kings for chasing a ball down a grass field.