The NFL, Kneeling, Ratings, and the Flag

[Il Duce]

Do you think that if we adopted a new national anthem with different lyrics the protests would stop?

I posit it has nothing to do with the lyrics.

We have a changed national anthem with different (less) lyrics. His protest - if you believe him (which I do) - is about police brutality and inequality in the justice system in how black men are treated. The point of the history of the anthem is not that changing it changes the protest - it's that the reverence, history, and import some place in the anthem in order to conclude these players are 'assholes', 'disrespectful', 'spitting on the military', or any of that shit is tragically misplaced. Just because you see a symbol one way doesn't mean those with a different perspective, background, or ideology are obligated to see it the same way.

 

[Il Duce]

I would suggest that anyone kneeling to protest a perceived slight to an ethnic group they belong to whilst making millions of dollars is more than a bit disingenuous.

It’s wildly disrespectful to the nation that allows them to live like kings for chasing a ball down a grass field.

What exactly makes them disingenuous? Their wealth, their ethnic group, the 'perceived slight'? I think being treated differently by the justice system, being murdered, and being brutalized by the police is more than a 'slight' - whether you think it's only 'perceived' or not. I think that's more than a little disingenuous.

 

[Salt USMC]

Either way, I'm done with the NFL. Between free agency and now all this.

Goodell either doesn't know his own rule book, or doesn't care to know. Selective enforcement makes you look like hypocrite with no standards whatsoever. "I don't want to ruffle anybodies feathers, so I' just going to ignore it and maybe it'll just go away" (sic)

Many here in America (And me personally) have always been attracted to pro sports, in whatever form they may be. Auto racing, golf, baseball etc. It's supposed to be enjoyable, like a way to wind down, kick back, relax and enjoy whatever venue it happens to be, whether live and in person, or on the TV. Inject politics into it and use that platform for your sounding board and as far as I'm concerned, you've ruined it, regardless which side of the fence it and you, happen to be.

So would you be good with taking out the anthem, the military salutes, and all the other plastic patriotism? Those are, after all, inherently political.

 

[Centermass]

So would you be good with taking out the anthem, the military salutes, and all the other plastic patriotism? Those are, after all, inherently political.

Plastic patriotism? Really?

Know why the Corps never change uniforms in design and scheme? It's called "Tradition." Same with the National Anthem.

I still still love this country, good times and bad, there's no place I'd rather be and know damn well, how thankful I'm not a TCN living in some God forsaken place resembling a hell hole, struggling just to get by and survive torment, hunger and strife.

Whatever man.

 

[TLDR20]

Either way, I'm done with the NFL. Between free agency and now all this.

Goodell either doesn't know his own rule book, or doesn't care to know. Selective enforcement makes you look like hypocrite with no standards whatsoever. "I don't want to ruffle anybodies feathers, so I' just going to ignore it and maybe it'll just go away" (sic)

Many here in America (And me personally) have always been attracted to pro sports, in whatever form they may be. Auto racing, golf, baseball etc. It's supposed to be enjoyable, like a way to wind down, kick back, relax and enjoy whatever venue it happens to be, whether live and in person, or on the TV. Inject politics into it and use that platform for your sounding board and as far as I'm concerned, you've ruined it, regardless which side of the fence it and you, happen to be.

What selective enforcement are you talking about? The meme about the rules stating that players had to stand on the sideline at attention for the anthem? That isn't exactly true.

FACT CHECK: Are NFL Players Required to Stand on the Field During the National Anthem?

At the end of the day the league is ran by the owners. The owners were on the sidelines supporting the players. So, I think the rulers of the league made their decision.

 

[SaintKP]

I have to agree with TLDR, Dice, and Salt here. Like I said in my other post (I can't remember the thread), while I don't like the fact that they are protesting the flag. It is still their right as an American citizen to speak up and protest something they dont agree with. They're not rioting, causing damage or even burning the flag it's a silent and peaceful protest and they are well within their rights for free speech, and in my personal opinion they're being more American than our own president right now who is trying to silence them.

We can argue the moral catalysts for the ones protesting all day and night whether it's genuine or not, but let's face it. They've brought even more attention to a very real problem in the United States right now and that's not taking a shot at LE either, we as a country have a ton of problems that need to be addressed before any real progress can be made. Not to mention the fact that we have fascists and communists/anarchists rioting in the streets and on campuses is disheartening to say the least.

We need to find a compromise as a country before any progress can be made currently, but seeing how divided we are over simply just politics shows that, that is a long road ahead of us.

 

[Centermass]

What selective enforcement are you talking about? The meme about the rules stating that players had to stand on the sideline at attention for the anthem? That isn't exactly true.

FACT CHECK: Are NFL Players Required to Stand on the Field During the National Anthem?

At the end of the day the league is ran by the owners. The owners were on the sidelines supporting the players. So, I think the rulers of the league made their decision.

Snopes...what a joke.

Go back and re-read it. My post and the snopes article as well.

I never said anything about everyone standing at attention for the anthem.

 

[TLDR20]

Snopes...what a joke.

Go back and re-read it. My post and the snopes article as well.

I never said anything about everyone standing at attention for the anthem.

No, you didn't, you just said selective enforcement of the rules, you didn't specify which ones and I surmised from the topic of this thread that is what you were referring to.

 

[amlove21]

I personally don’t have the motivation to constantly police another thread where people feel so strongly about an issue that they can’t restrain themselves from being dicks to one another. So.

Discuss all you’d like. Keep it civil. Stay on topic and off personal attacks.

Those that can’t will take breaks from the thread or catch some points.

 

[AWP]

The cynic in me loves how the controversy has replaced the intent when discussing the issue. Not just here, but everywhere.

 

[amlove21]

The cynic in me loves how the controversy has replaced the intent when discussing the issue. Not just here, but everywhere.

Great way to describe it. The only thing people love more than choosing sides ‘these days’ is arguing their position and getting likes from like minded folks on social media. Doesn’t really foster an environment of free thinking and intellectual growth, just people getting adept at ad hom and jumping on a bandwagon ASAP.

 

[Devildoc]

...To pull a stunt like kneeling during our Nathional Anthem, but stand for the Brits is something I just don't get. The NFL is a lauging stock of the entire world now.

What these overpriced toddlers fail to grasp is by standing for God Save the Queen, they are tacitly endorsing the same government that brought slavery and social/political oppression here to begin with. These morons can't see past the end of their noses.

 

[Devildoc]

With regards to the bold, based on the media coverage over in these parts... It's not the NFL who is considered a laughing stock, it's POTUS. He's calling for people to be sacked and has been roundly told in a polite fashion, that nobody cares what he wants.

The media is playing by the same playbook they used during the campaign, marginalizing Trump, dismissing his supporters, making fun of his base. How'd that workout for the DNC/Clinton, and the US?

If you want to follow MSM, fine, but they have a very specific perspective on how this is playing out. Meanwhile, social media and grassroots is showing otherwise.

 

[Red Flag 1]

.

 

[TLDR20]

 

[Isiah6:8]

Is this where the Military steps in and stops supplying color guards for the start of each game?

Is this the time to save on $$$ for flyovers?

Since they are an integral part of the opening ceremonies, with flyovers timed to the National Anthem, probably time to rethink that.

Hell just eliminate the opening ceremonies altogether. Flip the coin and start the game, less room for all this BS in the NFL. Make no mistake, this is all a game now.

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. I would argue they are just a part of opening ceremonies, not integral. Whatever looks best for the business is integral, this goes through cycles: 25 years ago they weren't bringing out troops at games for a standing O. They will do whatever the masses want to see and think is great.
4. Must keep the people entertained, that is good for business.

 

[SpitfireV]

What these overpriced toddlers fail to grasp is by standing for God Save the Queen, they are tacitly endorsing the same government that brought slavery and social/political oppression here to begin with. These morons can't see past the end of their noses.

Absolute nonsense.

 

[TLDR20]

Irony is thick here.

 

[Devildoc]

Absolute nonsense.

Believe what you will. But these guys, they are just hypocrites. Why stand for GSTQ? I guarantee none of them can link The Crown to 'Murca pre-1783. They want to stand (kneel? Sit? Whatev...) to demonstrate against oppression, but show support to the same government that has been THE most oppressive in North America....

Edited to add....to be fair, although the owners allow them to do this (easy fix: owners say no) and therefore have a "right", I think it's tasteless and hypocritical. One of those things, just because they can doesn't mean they should. I also call out the hypocrisy of the NFL writ large who says they believe in unity but refuses to allow players to wear a freakin' decal in support of LE and the military. So, unity and community seems to be a transient definition.

 

[TLDR20]

Believe what you will. But these guys, they are just hypocrites. Why stand for GSTQ? I guarantee none of them can link The Crown to 'Murca pre-1783. They want to stand (kneel? Sit? Whatev...) to demonstrate against oppression, but show support to the same government that has been THE most oppressive in North America....

Edited to add....to be fair, although the owners allow them to do this (easy fix: owners say no) and therefore have a "right", I think it's tasteless and hypocritical. One of those things, just because they can doesn't mean they should. I also call out the hypocrisy of the NFL writ large who says they believe in unity but refuses to allow players to wear a freakin' decal in support of LE and the military. So, unity and community seems to be a transient definition.

Are you serious right now?

The kneeling is about current events. Police brutality, and the unfair treatment of blacks by police in America, currently. You really want to bring up the English from the 17th and 18th century?