The NFL, Kneeling, Ratings, and the Flag

[SaintKP]

I have to agree with TLDR, Dice, and Salt here. Like I said in my other post (I can't remember the thread), while I don't like the fact that they are protesting the flag. It is still their right as an American citizen to speak up and protest something they dont agree with. They're not rioting, causing damage or even burning the flag it's a silent and peaceful protest and they are well within their rights for free speech, and in my personal opinion they're being more American than our own president right now who is trying to silence them.

We can argue the moral catalysts for the ones protesting all day and night whether it's genuine or not, but let's face it. They've brought even more attention to a very real problem in the United States right now and that's not taking a shot at LE either, we as a country have a ton of problems that need to be addressed before any real progress can be made. Not to mention the fact that we have fascists and communists/anarchists rioting in the streets and on campuses is disheartening to say the least.

We need to find a compromise as a country before any progress can be made currently, but seeing how divided we are over simply just politics shows that, that is a long road ahead of us.

 

[Centermass]

What selective enforcement are you talking about? The meme about the rules stating that players had to stand on the sideline at attention for the anthem? That isn't exactly true.

FACT CHECK: Are NFL Players Required to Stand on the Field During the National Anthem?

At the end of the day the league is ran by the owners. The owners were on the sidelines supporting the players. So, I think the rulers of the league made their decision.

Snopes...what a joke.

Go back and re-read it. My post and the snopes article as well.

I never said anything about everyone standing at attention for the anthem.

 

[TLDR20]

Snopes...what a joke.

Go back and re-read it. My post and the snopes article as well.

I never said anything about everyone standing at attention for the anthem.

No, you didn't, you just said selective enforcement of the rules, you didn't specify which ones and I surmised from the topic of this thread that is what you were referring to.

 

[amlove21]

I personally don’t have the motivation to constantly police another thread where people feel so strongly about an issue that they can’t restrain themselves from being dicks to one another. So.

Discuss all you’d like. Keep it civil. Stay on topic and off personal attacks.

Those that can’t will take breaks from the thread or catch some points.

 

[AWP]

The cynic in me loves how the controversy has replaced the intent when discussing the issue. Not just here, but everywhere.

 

[amlove21]

The cynic in me loves how the controversy has replaced the intent when discussing the issue. Not just here, but everywhere.

Great way to describe it. The only thing people love more than choosing sides ‘these days’ is arguing their position and getting likes from like minded folks on social media. Doesn’t really foster an environment of free thinking and intellectual growth, just people getting adept at ad hom and jumping on a bandwagon ASAP.

 

[Devildoc]

...To pull a stunt like kneeling during our Nathional Anthem, but stand for the Brits is something I just don't get. The NFL is a lauging stock of the entire world now.

What these overpriced toddlers fail to grasp is by standing for God Save the Queen, they are tacitly endorsing the same government that brought slavery and social/political oppression here to begin with. These morons can't see past the end of their noses.

 

[Devildoc]

With regards to the bold, based on the media coverage over in these parts... It's not the NFL who is considered a laughing stock, it's POTUS. He's calling for people to be sacked and has been roundly told in a polite fashion, that nobody cares what he wants.

The media is playing by the same playbook they used during the campaign, marginalizing Trump, dismissing his supporters, making fun of his base. How'd that workout for the DNC/Clinton, and the US?

If you want to follow MSM, fine, but they have a very specific perspective on how this is playing out. Meanwhile, social media and grassroots is showing otherwise.

 

[Red Flag 1]

.

 

[TLDR20]

 

[Isiah6:8]

Is this where the Military steps in and stops supplying color guards for the start of each game?

Is this the time to save on $$$ for flyovers?

Since they are an integral part of the opening ceremonies, with flyovers timed to the National Anthem, probably time to rethink that.

Hell just eliminate the opening ceremonies altogether. Flip the coin and start the game, less room for all this BS in the NFL. Make no mistake, this is all a game now.

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. I would argue they are just a part of opening ceremonies, not integral. Whatever looks best for the business is integral, this goes through cycles: 25 years ago they weren't bringing out troops at games for a standing O. They will do whatever the masses want to see and think is great.
4. Must keep the people entertained, that is good for business.

 

[SpitfireV]

What these overpriced toddlers fail to grasp is by standing for God Save the Queen, they are tacitly endorsing the same government that brought slavery and social/political oppression here to begin with. These morons can't see past the end of their noses.

Absolute nonsense.

 

[TLDR20]

Irony is thick here.

 

[Devildoc]

Absolute nonsense.

Believe what you will. But these guys, they are just hypocrites. Why stand for GSTQ? I guarantee none of them can link The Crown to 'Murca pre-1783. They want to stand (kneel? Sit? Whatev...) to demonstrate against oppression, but show support to the same government that has been THE most oppressive in North America....

Edited to add....to be fair, although the owners allow them to do this (easy fix: owners say no) and therefore have a "right", I think it's tasteless and hypocritical. One of those things, just because they can doesn't mean they should. I also call out the hypocrisy of the NFL writ large who says they believe in unity but refuses to allow players to wear a freakin' decal in support of LE and the military. So, unity and community seems to be a transient definition.

 

[TLDR20]

Believe what you will. But these guys, they are just hypocrites. Why stand for GSTQ? I guarantee none of them can link The Crown to 'Murca pre-1783. They want to stand (kneel? Sit? Whatev...) to demonstrate against oppression, but show support to the same government that has been THE most oppressive in North America....

Edited to add....to be fair, although the owners allow them to do this (easy fix: owners say no) and therefore have a "right", I think it's tasteless and hypocritical. One of those things, just because they can doesn't mean they should. I also call out the hypocrisy of the NFL writ large who says they believe in unity but refuses to allow players to wear a freakin' decal in support of LE and the military. So, unity and community seems to be a transient definition.

Are you serious right now?

The kneeling is about current events. Police brutality, and the unfair treatment of blacks by police in America, currently. You really want to bring up the English from the 17th and 18th century?

 

[Frank S.]

Oh, this thread... It's like season 7...

 

[Devildoc]

Are you serious right now?

The kneeling is about current events. Police brutality, and the unfair treatment of blacks by police in America, currently. You really want to bring up the English from the 17th and 18th century?

I am serious in I don't believe they know what the fuck they are kneeling, standing, or spinning for. Before Trump tweeted what he did, most of those players were interested bystanders. Now in the course of 96 hours, all of a sudden they are the mascots for the social martyrs brigade? I don't think so.

My point in bringing up kneeling for the National Anthem and standing for GSTQ is that it underscores their lack of knowledge of context or history and emphasizes the jump-on-the-bandwagon backlash that is going on right now. Their knowledge of current events ends at whatever social media is telling them is important, the cause du jour.

I have become so fucking hardened by the whole thing that I see every single one of those people with an agenda, and it ain't police brutality. They are in it for the limelight and PR, it's all about image. If they were consistent with their values, why don't they leave the NFL, take their millions, start some foundation, and get involved.

 

[Frank S.]

First I was like OMG but then WTF? This thread...

 

[Lefty375]

I am serious in I don't believe they know what the fuck they are kneeling, standing, or spinning for. Before Trump tweeted what he did, most of those players were interested bystanders. Now in the course of 96 hours, all of a sudden they are the mascots for the social martyrs brigade? I don't think so.

My point in bringing up kneeling for the National Anthem and standing for GSTQ is that it underscores their lack of knowledge of context or history and emphasizes the jump-on-the-bandwagon backlash that is going on right now. Their knowledge of current events ends at whatever social media is telling them is important, the cause du jour.

I have become so fucking hardened by the whole thing that I see every single one of those people with an agenda, and it ain't police brutality. They are in it for the limelight and PR, it's all about image. If they were consistent with their values, why don't they leave the NFL, take their millions, start some foundation, and get involved.

I enjoyed reading most of your post. I just want to point out that there are great philosophical arguments against doing exactly that -- leaving the NFL. For example, effective altruism would say that as players of the NFL, they should continue to make millions AND help/start a foundation or continue to give. If they stand for social justice, and the NFL protests got one of the most powerful people on the planet to tweet about them, then altruism would say they are doing the most good they can in their current position. I would argue that getting the President to take notice and use his platform to talk to the nation about the issue, IS getting involved.

 

[Frank S.]

I enjoyed reading most of your post. I just want to point out that there are great philosophical arguments against doing exactly that -- leaving the NFL. For example, effective altruism would say that as players of the NFL, they should continue to make millions AND help/start a foundation or continue to give. If they stand for social justice, and the NFL protests got one of the most powerful people on the planet to tweet about them, then altruism would say they are doing the most good they can in their current position. I would argue that getting the President to take notice and use his platform to talk to the nation about the issue, IS getting involved.

Suddenly.
A cogent statement.