The Trump Presidency

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And your assumptions are not without reason. This is what we are all being fed, whether its the whole truth or not.

Yeah, the more I think about this the more it really comes down to an assessment of trust. I wouldn't characterize it as 'he said/she said' because I don't think it's necessarily about different stories - just differing values you give to the stories.

I've been thinking about what if this happened with a politician I really trusted? If a President I thought was steeped in honesty, integrity, good judgment, and solid strategic goals - how would I react to a report he/she had shared sensitive information with a semi-hostile foreign power, but one we were struggling to cooperate with against a common enemy. Especially in a context where that common enemy could end up having a disproportionate impact on national security resources if we were forced/pressured to deploy substantial forces to a problematic AOR?

I don't know, I would I think be concerned from the professional side about how smart a decision that release was but, I think I'd feel like those are the kinds of decisions the President is elected and empowered to make. I'd be incensed that professionals in the IC would challenge the President's authority and put our intelligence sharing agreements (trust) at risk through unauthorized disclosures. If there were foreign media in the room for the disclosures maybe I'd mollify my take against the leakers.

So, I guess this is a case where my belief the President's consistent lies and overall lack of credibility make this a significant case against him. But, if it weren't for that I'm not sure I would think so.

So, if you're somebody who doesn't feel the President has lied or has a lack of credibility, if in fact the opposite - you trust him on all the categories I mentioned before - you would have a totally different take. It's kind of weird for me to think about - because for the first 48 hours of this thing, and I still have qualms about it - this didn't seem to me to be a very partisan issue. I guess it comes down to personal partisanship - your direct views on the President himself.
 
I wouldn't give the Russians anything just...because they are Russians. They bully us the world over, are back to their Cold War games, and support the Muj in Afghanistan (party like it is 1979), I wouldn't give them a knock-off recipe for a Bloomin Onion.

I don't care who is in the White House or who said what....it is patently fucking stupid to share anything with the Russians.
 
So, I guess this is a case where my belief the President's consistent lies and overall lack of credibility

I don't see Trump as a consistent liar. I don't always agree with his behavior or decisions, but I don't see him as a consistent liar. So you are right here too, it depends how we view the president and on our own personal politics.
 
Yeah, the more I think about this the more it really comes down to an assessment of trust. I wouldn't characterize it as 'he said/she said' because I don't think it's necessarily about different stories - just differing values you give to the stories.
Well I'll tell you one thing, the Media has created the atmosphere in which they are not trusted. I don't trust a damn thing that comes out of the WAPO or NYT when they've done great journalism in the past. This past year they've proven that they're not out there to do the great stuff anymore. Trump needs to get off twitter and he's the President. Do you trust him? You're saying you don't. But without cited sources with names and documents, the work isn't scholarly enough to use at all.

Do I trust Trump? I do. But I also trust in the government that surrounds him between the Congress and the men and women he's appointed.

All we get now is Trump hate. And Maybe we had Obama hate, but the news on my twitter feed is WSJ, Bloomberg, and CNBC...when Obama was president I didn't get bombarded with Obama hate multiple times a day. I'm starting to wonder if it would have been this bad with journalists no matter who the Republican was.
 
All we get now is Trump hate. And Maybe we had Obama hate, but the news on my twitter feed is WSJ, Bloomberg, and CNBC...when Obama was president I didn't get bombarded with Obama hate multiple times a day. I'm starting to wonder if it would have been this bad with journalists no matter who the Republican was.
Less material, less to report, less 'hate'. If there wasn't a new and ridiculous story line every single day, we wouldn't see newer and more ridiculous story lines.
 
Well I'll tell you one thing, the Media has created the atmosphere in which they are not trusted. I don't trust a damn thing that comes out of the WAPO or NYT when they've done great journalism in the past. This past year they've proven that they're not out there to do the great stuff anymore. Trump needs to get off twitter and he's the President. Do you trust him? You're saying you don't. But without cited sources with names and documents, the work isn't scholarly enough to use at all.

Do I trust Trump? I do. But I also trust in the government that surrounds him between the Congress and the men and women he's appointed.

All we get now is Trump hate. And Maybe we had Obama hate, but the news on my twitter feed is WSJ, Bloomberg, and CNBC...when Obama was president I didn't get bombarded with Obama hate multiple times a day. I'm starting to wonder if it would have been this bad with journalists no matter who the Republican was.

This is one of those things I just can't see from the conservative side. I get accusations of 'bias' defined relatively narrowly - preconceived notions impacting the way stories are talked about, how they're prioritized, and the way they're reported. But, that's a far cry from 'fake news' or an accusation the mainstream media (if you include Brietbart, Alex Jones, et all in 'media' then you definitely have plenty of fabrications there) is lying in regular reporting (editorials might be a different standard - but those are explicitly opinion pieces so they are interpreting data with a much wider leeway).

I'm not aware of any evidence that the NY Times, Washington Post, or any major newspaper (other than the Enquirer - which President Trump quoted as evidence more than once) is fabricating any stories. They've certainly reported false information - and printed retractions - but I don't know of any evidence-free articles. Media also gets things wrong - like prediction on who would win the election. But they were faithfully reporting the consensus of experts - not making shit up. Even the much maligned use of 'anonymous sources' (at least maligned when you're not the anonymous source as is frequently the case in the Trump administration) is still real sources. The information they're reporting is coming to them from credible sources and is vetted with journalistic standards - it can still be wrong, as all politicians learn to manipulate media reports - but that's not at all in the same category as lying or fabricating things. On the other hand there is ample evidence on story after story of the Trump administration doing exactly that.

I get blaming 'the media' is always a winning strategy for the administration, and maybe conservatives in general. But, as soon as you get into specifics the case is extremely weak.


The more I've thought about this (and I read an Atlantic article a couple weeks ago that said much the same thing) the more I can see why the GOP would think this is a terrible idea - and may be right (from a political perspective). When I think of a special prosecutor I think of those that plagued the Clintons. In every one of those cases (at least that come to my mind) a shit-ton of stuff came to light that had nothing to do with the original investigation. Ken Star was investigating whitewater - which amounted to nothing - but got President Clinton impeached in the house on Monica Lewinsky. Not a special prosecutor for Benghazi but 7 (or maybe 9) investigations cleared DoS and HRC on Benghazi - but they got her email scandal, the emails themselves out of it. Even the Scooter Libby, Valerie Plame thing in Bush 43 put a lot of shade on the VP's office and the administration - even if no other charges came out of it.

There's a credible argument to be made a special prosecutor should be feared not for what they're investigating, but for all the other shit they could find outside the scope of their investigation.
 
I get blaming 'the media' is always a winning strategy for the administration, and maybe conservatives in general. But, as soon as you get into specifics the case is extremely weak.
What case? Based on what evidence? The hearsay of some anonymous source who probably isn't even employed why the current White House?

I'm of the school that I have to see it, and if you don't have it, how are you to be believed. Long gone are the days of trusting journalists.
 
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Special Counsel appointed. Ryan on tape (reportedly) saying that Trump is paid by the Russians. On Sunday, Trump goes to Saudi Arabia for his nine days of meetings and speeches. Shit is moving fast!

What's the over/under on having a Trump administration in 2018?
 
Special Counsel appointed. Ryan on tape (reportedly) saying that Trump is paid by the Russians. On Sunday, Trump goes to Saudi Arabia for his nine days of meetings and speeches. Shit is moving fast!

What's the over/under on having a Trump administration in 2018?

I'd be surprised if a Trump 2020 victory didn't = riots on a scale that made his post 2016 victory ones look weak, should he make it that far.
 
Every time Hilary watches old news clips where she hears someone say she was not qualified to be president because of a few unsecured emails.... I have to imagine at this point she vacillates between amazed frustration over what happened to her candidacy, and outright joy over what the current president is dealing with in regards to the classified information.
 
What's the over/under on having a Trump administration in 2018?

I am done placing wagers on the potential downfall of Donald J Trump. "We" have been predicting that "this" would finally be the thing that takes Trump out of the game since before he was even a formal candidate; yet he overcomes every single time.
 
Every time Hilary watches old news clips where she hears someone say she was not qualified to be president because of a few unsecured emails.... I have to imagine at this point she vacillates between amazed frustration over what happened to her candidacy, and outright joy over what the current president is dealing with in regards to the classified information.

In some ways I think that's very dangerous for HRC. HRC was an incredibly flawed candidate that represented establishment competence - in an electorate clamoring for change. I don't imagine the dynamic is going to change dramatically by 2020. If HRC - who is much more powerful in the Democratic party than popular - tries to push another run it could lead to a very ugly, debilitating opposition party in 2020. Incumbents are hard to beat. I think there's a lot of folks on the left of the aisle counting chickens long before they've hatched. From what I've seen in polling President Trump has vacillated between 38-45% approval pretty steadily his entire term despite massive scandals. And, it varies by enthusiasm in his base - not their moving to the other side. I think he might be tougher to beat if he makes it to 2020 than people think.

Trump haters will be sorry if they get what they want and Mike Pence takes the helm.

I agree 100%. VP Pence could not have gotten elected President in any cycle the last 20 years - but if he takes over from President Trump he'll have all of President Trump's support, plus plenty of good will from across the spectrum for not being mired in the constant stream of shit President Trump has found (or caused) himself to be in. President Pence is likely to get massive amounts of legislation through on a conservative agenda (though without the economic populism President Trump has talked about or national security isolationism), especially if he does it before the 2018 flip or lessened majorities. Politically Democrats should be way more scared of President Pence than they should be of President Trump in my opinion.
 
With the leaks, the back-and-forth, the vitriol, and my near total distrust of the media, I have a hard time trusting every story about Trump. I do not like him one bit, but sensational stories day in and day out using the ubiquitous "anonymous source" are getting old and smacks of screaming the sky is falling. Hell, maybe they are 100% factual and devoid of "fake news" or whatever-the-hell-we-call-lies-in-the-media today, but this shitshow is unreal and even my exceptionally cynical side has a hard time believing this mess.

It may come out in the wash someday, but not today.
 
Trump haters will be sorry if they get what they want and Mike Pence takes the helm.

Trump haters want Mike Pence to be POTUS??
:-/

I'm a mile behind the information curve. Time to ditch this thread and just watch the terrifically slow implosion.
 
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