The Trump Presidency

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But does disgruntled equal wrong, lying, and/or misrepresenting? I'm sure he's going to go out and fuck the President over royally - but, that doesn't mean the goods he delivers aren't real.

Some of the news coming to light does put his farewell letter in a different light. He didn't argue at all in it - said the President could do what he did and supports him. Looked like the classiest and most pro-Trump thing a guy could do at the time. But, with all the leaks from Comey associates about the information he has documented and stories he can tell - essentially compelling congress to have Comey testify - without him having said a word - he's put in a perfect position to 'reluctantly' let everything loose. I've read Comey's only demand was that he testify in open, not closed, session.

If he confirms - or adds to - the stuff that's been reported about his meetings and conversations with the President it's going to be very bad for the administration. But, he's put himself in a position to say 'I'm not against the President, I never criticized him or contradicted him except where I had to in sworn testimony (the 'had my wires tapped' allegation) and I accepted and supported his firing of me without complaint. But, now that you've compelled me to testify and are asking me directly - here's some bombs on the administration's head.
 
I've to be completely honest, the one person I genuinely feel sorry for after the past few weeks, is Sean Spicer.

I took the piss out of him myself a few times at the early stages of his time as Press Secretary but these past few weeks must have been rough for him. Trying to defend a President who will generally make him look like a liar an hour later by tweeting something that blows whatever defence Spicer used out of the water.

The pressure he faces to defend a President who continuously throws him under the bus must be insane. I think when he took refuge behind some bushes, before asking for all cameras and lights to be killed before he'd speak to the press was a major sign of him cracking.

I wouldn't want his job, not in a million years.
 
Admin hat: Thread title changed to better reflect the discussion.
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Let's say for the sake of argument that Trump's impeached. Gone. Donezies.

- How do the Republicans recover? Pence is in office, can he rebuild confidence in the GOP?
- You have to find a candidate for 2020. Who? Democrats can sit back and position themselves now, but the GOP can't "build" presidential hopefuls with Trump around. Not fully at least so that brings us back to the above: what can Pence do to fix things?
- I figured the Clinton machine wouldn't return, but will she? Third time's the charm or does her own party tell her to sit the rest of them out? This is the same group that sank Sanders' chances for Hillary's and lost the farm. Will the DNC treat her like they treated Sanders in '16?

Impeaching a president is a horrific proposition, but might prove to be necessary in this case. Is the GOP ready to go there and how will they recover?
 
AWP said:
Admin hat: Thread title changed to better reflect the discussion.
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Let's say for the sake of argument that Trump's impeached. Gone. Donezies.

- How do the Republicans recover? Pence is in office, can he rebuild confidence in the GOP?
They don't. Not in this generation, if ever. The Republican Party is so disorganized, they couldn't lead a single human being out of a wet paper bag that was open at both ends while pulling their lone charge in a little red wagon. You have to give the DNC credit for mastering the art of corralling cats; they can inspire millions of SJW's to stop screaming "I'm the bigger victim than you" long enough to unify against the Evil Conservatives at the drop of a hat, with varying degrees of success. Conservatives can organize themselves, and field decent candidates at the local levels, but once they get elected nationally, their brains go into a jar of formaldehyde until such time as to achieve sufficient pliability to accept The Way Things Are Done in DC.

- You have to find a candidate for 2020. Who? Democrats can sit back and position themselves now, but the GOP can't "build" presidential hopefuls with Trump around. Not fully at least so that brings us back to the above: what can Pence do to fix things?
I would hesitate to call anyone that the Republican Party itself has fielded as "hopeful," with or without Trump's presence. Bush 43 is, at heart, a good man that meant well, but he was elected because enough people were tired of all things Clinton, and Al Gore suffered as a result. Bush 41 got the office in part because he was Reagan's VP, and Dukakis was a fucking moron. Had Bill run earlier, he'd have beaten Bush despite the love for all things Reagan related. After them, who can anyone point to that was even remotely non-borderline retarded. John McCain is an opportunist, and Bob Dole did better hawking Viagra.

- I figured the Clinton machine wouldn't return, but will she? Third time's the charm or does her own party tell her to sit the rest of them out? This is the same group that sank Sanders' chances for Hillary's and lost the farm. Will the DNC treat her like they treated Sanders in '16?
The question is, how big is the fight between machine loyalists and the rest of the party. The DNC is hellbent for leather that the next Democrat will have an XX chromosomal pair, and Elizabeth Warren is currently their best bet. If what's left of the Clinton Machine does shanghai the nomination again, the outliers would be best served in branching off and forming their own Socialist Party. No sense in sugar coating it. California has voted to legalize card carrying Communists holding state level positions, so why not? They're going to win, anyway, because the elected Republicans are fucking idiots, and nobody votes for Libertarians because "Eeeeeewwwww, pot and guns!" (That covers both sides' opposition points rather succinctly.)

Impeaching a president is a horrific proposition, but might prove to be necessary in this case. Is the GOP ready to go there and how will they recover?
The GOP is not ready, will never be ready, and will not recover. They are either too fucking stupid, or they are so wrapped up in their role as loyal opposition that they have forgotten what the party was originally founded on.
Click to expand...

My responses are above. There's no "glass half empty" to this situation.

*Minor edit for clarity
 
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AWP said:
Admin hat: Thread title changed to better reflect the discussion.
---

Let's say for the sake of argument that Trump's impeached. Gone. Donezies.

- How do the Republicans recover? Pence is in office, can he rebuild confidence in the GOP?
- You have to find a candidate for 2020. Who? Democrats can sit back and position themselves now, but the GOP can't "build" presidential hopefuls with Trump around. Not fully at least so that brings us back to the above: what can Pence do to fix things?
- I figured the Clinton machine wouldn't return, but will she? Third time's the charm or does her own party tell her to sit the rest of them out? This is the same group that sank Sanders' chances for Hillary's and lost the farm. Will the DNC treat her like they treated Sanders in '16?

Impeaching a president is a horrific proposition, but might prove to be necessary in this case. Is the GOP ready to go there and how will they recover?
Click to expand...


Interesting to ponder. I think Trump is going to be impeached at some point. I think it's been in the cards since the election. Will he be convicted and removed from office? Hard to say. The only other US Presidents to be impeached were both acquitted. Clinton clearly committed a felony (perjury) and was still acquitted because of partisan support.

It's one thing to impeach. It's another to get the votes to have a President tossed out of the White House on his ass. It's never happened.

If it should happen and Pence is elevated to POTUS, he's going to have the almost impossible task of distancing himself from Trump. And with partisan politics as bitter and venomous as they have been the past 17 years, I don't see him able to do much of anything. Another Gerald Ford, riding out the term of his predecessor. In addition to that, we've seen various public displays of disrespect toward Pence, in spite of his decent reputation. They paint him with the same brush and do not seem open to argument. If they think Trump is a liar and a racist, they also think Pence is a liar and a racist.

Post-Trump/Pence, in our imaginary scenario, I see a Democratic landslide provided the Dems nominate somebody other than Hillary. The Clinton Machine may still be a powerful influence behind the scene, but she's damaged goods.
 
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Ocoka said:
In addition to that, we've seen various public displays of disrespect toward Pence, in spite of his decent reputation. They paint him with the same brush and do not seem open to argument. If they think Trump is a liar and a racist, they also think Pence is a liar and a racist.
Click to expand...

I believe that the disrespect towards Pence is meant as a message to Trump - if Trump were to go (my money is on resigning before impeachment), both sides of the isle would initially embrace Pence, if for no other reason than Washington would be 'somewhat' back to normal again. It would get UGLY as 2020 approaches, but my god we are not even 6 months into Trump's first term yet.
 
As a liberal college student, most of the disrespect I see for VP Pence among my peers comes from the things he's said regarding gays - most notably conversion therapy.

Actually most of the people I talk with think he's an honest and principled guy, just one that happens to have principles some of us *really* have an issue with.
 
PCRWizard said:
As a liberal college student, most of the disrespect I see for VP Pence among my peers comes from the things he's said regarding gays - most notably conversion therapy.

Actually most of the people I talk with think he's an honest and principled guy, just one that happens to have principles some of us *really* have an issue with.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. His thoughts on women are also concerning to me.
 
Trump asked intelligence chiefs to push back against FBI collusion probe after Comey revealed its existence
President Trump asked two of the nation’s top intelligence officials in March to help him push back against an FBI investigation into possible coordination between his campaign and the Russian government, according to current and former officials.

Trump made separate appeals to the director of national intelligence, Daniel Coats, and to Adm. Michael S. Rogers, the director of the National Security Agency, urging them to publicly deny the existence of any evidence of collusion during the 2016 election.

Coats and Rogers refused to comply with the requests, which they both deemed to be inappropriate, according to two current and two former officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss private communications with the president.
Click to expand...

What does this week's presidential hangman game spell?

O_s_r_ctio_ of J_ stic_
 
Pence's record on conversion therapy is not something he stands on, and you have to go back to 2000 to find any written evidence that kinda-sorta support the idea.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/30/us/politics/mike-pence-and-conversion-therapy-a-history.html


@TLDR20 - Anything specific regarding women you are referencing, or just on a whole? Truthfully Pence's stance on things have not been on my radar. To really dig up the dirt, I went looking for an anti-Pence article and found: Mike Pence and his team pose ‘biggest threat in a generation’ to women, say campaigners

- He is pro-life and not in support of free contraceptives.
- He is against 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions.
- He falls on the religious argument on these...he loses me there.

I'd much rather he say that he believes that the government should not be in the business of supplying free contraceptives and 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions are just wrong.

This is not me being a smartass, but what do birth control and abortion have to do with gender equality?
 
I will agree that he has backtracked on that view and being charitable to VP Pence, he *may* not have even meant it at the time. However, he does have a proven track record of opposing sex education, contraception, gay marriage, civil unions, and anti discrimination legislation. (among other things)

And I mean, this is a big subject but just a short blurb on my opinion - birth control is nice for gender equality because the woman can choose not to have a child and not to be forced to rely on the guy.
 
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