The Turkey-Russia Incident

[AWP]

I understand what you're saying and I'm onboard. The problem is you have a bunch of parties and almost every nation here is doing what is in their interests. The French are helping Assad so their "massive" retaliatory strikes are a show, but plays well on TV. I hope we're not underwriting some of their commitment (we did this for other NATO nations in Afghanistan) but the French have major equipment limitations which marginalizes their integration with the coalition. The Russians' are well known. The Turks...fuck the Turks. That whole slice is a dumpster fire and I'd love to sing about that abortion. The Iraqis aren't a dumpster, they are a burning landfill. No one's in charge and no one will be in charge so there's no incentive or requirement to play nice; it is a free-for-all.

Then there's us. On top of the ROE and a bunch of other issues adding Turkey to the fight is problematic. Think about it: This is a CENTCOM war but Turkey belongs to EUCOM. Do you think EUCOM has abrogated their authority and given those pieces to CENTCOM to manage? Who is paying for it?

I can't speak to the diplomatic attempts and failures, I only see the end result and even that is akin to looking at the campaign through the proverbial paper towel tube. I was involved before the Turks and Russians showed up to the party and have seen the resulting changes through my tube. They aren't pretty.

The guys and gals responsible for the "go here and do this" portion are killing it, but I question the other pieces.

 

[DA SWO]

....and seems that old-style posturing with bombers is passe' now as Turkey shot down a Russian aircraft. The article I read said that the Turks warned them "10 times in 5 minutes" that they were in Turkish airspace.

So far Putin seems to be exercising appropriate restraint.

The Russians have been violating Turkish Airspace since they arrived, essentially giving Turkey the middle finger.
The Turks got lucky and had planes available, in the right spot to do something this time.

I want shoot down details though, Sidewinder missiles would be my first bet.

 

[DA SWO]

Russian media claiming the plane was shot down less than a mile over the Turkish border. For those who know the standard progression of in flight comms-to-shoot down: how likely is it that the su-24 was only 1 mile over the border? those things haul ass, yes?

And thought I'd ask if we're still flying f-22's over syria since russian air systems have moved in. Not that we wouldn't fly in fear of being shot down, but I'd assume we wouldn't want them to get a chance at figuring out that baby's RCS.

How far in Syrian Airspace was the Turkish RF-4 that was shot down?

 

[Brill]

The Russians have repeatedly violated Turkish airspace and were repeatedly warned not to do it again. Putin is a habitual linestepper and the Russians have repeatedly pushed the envelope here. This should come as no surprise to anyone. If anything, I'm surprised it took this long.

Did you just call Obama a vuh-jay-jay?

 

[Blizzard]

The Russians have repeatedly violated Turkish airspace and were repeatedly warned not to do it again. Putin is a habitual linestepper and the Russians have repeatedly pushed the envelope here. This should come as no surprise to anyone. If anything, I'm surprised it took this long.

I don't have huge love for the Turks but as you stated, Russia decided to play this serious game. Their cavalier approach to intercepts and air space intrusion was destined to result in a mid-air or something like this. It was stupid/childish and they just got bit. I'd like to think this will lead the Russians to a more responsible approach but we'll see...they tend to let their pride cloud their judgement quite a bit.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Makes me wonder...would we do it? I mean we send some intercepts up when Bear gets too close to Alaska, but if that bird kept going, would we shoot it down? I have a very difficult time believing that we would; quite honestly I'm surprised Russia has not probed further in, just to see if they could.

 

[AWP]

Did you just call Obama a vuh-jay-jay?

If the lack of a foreign policy or strategic plan and our inability to address Russian actions over the last few years makes one a certain body part...

How dare you insinuate my opinions of our Commander in Chief are anything less than laudatory! My good man that is scandalous!

 

[Red-Dot]

LETS GET READY TO RUMBLE!

It's starting to look a lot like WW3, every time I read the news...

I've often wondered if the Russian pilots were intentionally fucking with the Turkish border, or if they are just actually that bad at navigation.

Next we will see T-90's coming through the Fulda Gap! Better not retire that A-10 quite yet!

 

[Blizzard]

I want shoot down details though, Sidewinder missiles would be my first bet.

Fox Two, bitches!

 

[Centermass]

 

[DA SWO]

Funny, but the person who wrote that doesn't know Turks.
Has the story changed to say they were in Syrian Airspace?
Otherwise this falls into the Russian Propaganda for $200.00 Alex category.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

So looks like Russian SAR rescued the pilot and got him back to the Homeland...

Downed Russian pilot picked up by Syrian army - envoy

 

[Blizzard]

I'd be curious to see the President and State Department's comments on the fate of the other Russian pilot since it was reported, and video was made available, of Turkmen firing on them while under canopy - actually considered a war crime for those bound to Geneva Conventions. I'm not defending Russia's actions but I'm not going to justify the subsequent actions of these "rebels" either. Not cool.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

 

[Rapid]

Turkey smokes a Russian plane. "Pari-what? Pari-who?" Done, this never happened.

And yet I don't understand why there isn't an actual thread on here about such a huge development.

I saw an analogy about this. Your neighbor's house is burning. You stand in your back yard with a gun. The fire brigade arrives and takes one single step on the very corner of your property while taking the hose to the burning house. You shoot the firemen. WOOHOOO I'M THE GREAT DEFENDER OF NATO BORDERS, ALLAHU AKBAR!

Yeah, yeah, not fully comparable, but come on you fucking Turks... They were there for 17 seconds max by Turkey's own admission (it may have been even shorter). They were already on their way out and posed no threat.

Edit: ok, ok, it's in the Iraq and ISIS thread.

 

[Rapid]

Bold face part: You must have seen a different video than I, as the video I saw showed a helicopter on the ground, rotors stopped getting destroyed.

The video you watched must have cut off the first part, where they're setting up.

Embedded media from this media site is no longer available

Read it, did not see it. So not surprised that different media reporting different things.

 

[Marauder06]

I don't like alarmist journalism, but this is a pretty tense situation. Many of the major countries that are at play here are experiencing some severe internal crises, and creating an external threat is a great way to get the population focused on something else other than how shitty their lives are due to the people in power in their own countries. When that happens, sometimes the mob gets hard to control and unintended consequences result.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

@Marauder06 - that is very well written.

 

[AWP]

Anyone watch the last season of House of Cards?

We don't know if the pilots were set up, but it wouldn't surprise me at all.

 

[Marauder06]

@Marauder06 - that is very well written.

I agree. This is a pretty bad situation. Anyone who knows history or understands international relations, or basic human nature for that matter, knows how easy it is for things to escalate out of control.