The Turkey-Russia Incident

[DA SWO]

And yet I don't understand why there isn't an actual thread on here about such a huge development.

I saw an analogy about this. Your neighbor's house is burning. You stand in your back yard with a gun. The fire brigade arrives and takes one single step on the very corner of your property while taking the hose to the burning house. You shoot the firemen. WOOHOOO I'M THE GREAT DEFENDER OF NATO BORDERS, ALLAHU AKBAR!

Yeah, yeah, not fully comparable, but come on you fucking Turks... They were there for 17 seconds max by Turkey's own admission (it may have been even shorter). They were already on their way out and posed no threat.

Edit: ok, ok, it's in the Iraq and ISIS thread.

How long was the Turkish RF-4 in Syrian Airspace?

I have minimal interactions with Turks, those interactions convinced me they were ultra-nationalists, this is a saving face action.

 

[DA SWO]

I agree. This is a pretty bad situation. Anyone who knows history or understands international relations, or basic human nature for that matter, knows how easy it is for things to escalate out of control.

Agreed, backing into a war is the wrong way to go to war.
Gee 100 years ago a multitude of treaties led to a great war.
Glad we can not make that mistake again.

 

[Frank S.]

Turkey smokes a Russian plane. "Pari-what? Pari-who?" Done, this never happened.

That'd be my cue to change my profile pic back on FB...

 

[Gunz]

I don't like alarmist journalism, but this is a pretty tense situation. Many of the major countries that are at play here are experiencing some severe internal crises, and creating an external threat is a great way to get the population focused on something else other than how shitty their lives are due to the people in power in their own countries. When that happens, sometimes the mob gets hard to control and unintended consequences result.

"Big things have small beginnings," to borrow a quote from Lawrence of Arabia...Even very bad things. With so many diverse killing elements, so many different agendas all in such close proximity and all kinds of metal flying through the air, things are poised to go to hell in a hurry. Good article.

 

[Brill]

And yet I don't understand why there isn't an actual thread on here about such a huge development.

I saw an analogy about this. Your neighbor's house is burning. You stand in your back yard with a gun. The fire brigade arrives and takes one single step on the very corner of your property while taking the hose to the burning house. You shoot the firemen. WOOHOOO I'M THE GREAT DEFENDER OF NATO BORDERS, ALLAHU AKBAR!

Yeah, yeah, not fully comparable, but come on you fucking Turks... They were there for 17 seconds max by Turkey's own admission (it may have been even shorter). They were already on their way out and posed no threat.

Edit: ok, ok, it's in the Iraq and ISIS thread.

Press has been reporting that Russians were bombing Turkmen forces. That tells me this really has nothing to do with airspace.

Russian raids repeatedly hit Syrian Turkmen areas, Moscow's data shows

 

[DA SWO]

Press has been reporting that Russians were bombing Turkmen forces. That tells me this really has nothing to do with airspace.

Russian raids repeatedly hit Syrian Turkmen areas, Moscow's data shows

Maybe, but by zipping through Turkey the Russians gave the turks an opportunity to take a plane down.
Putin had to expect some pushback, 25% (maybe) of the strikes are against DAESH.

 

[JBS]

Might be the case, but then why would Turkey say it's a reaction to airspace violation, instead of admitting that they were sustaining casualties among forces they support?

In either case, there isn't a satisfactory response. If they are lying, it's because they want to conceal the nature of their involvement; if telling the truth, morons are behind the controls.


What a mess.

We are on the verge of WWIII.

 

[AWP]

The Russians have repeatedly violated Turkey's airspace and even intercepted our a/c. They have barley, if at all, deconflicted their cruise missile strikes. Turkey made repeated calls on Guard in both English and Russian multiple times in a 3 hour window because of airspace or potential airspace violations. Those Turkish F-16 were able to respond so quickly because none of this was a surprise to the Turks thanks to the Russians' own behavior.

I have no love for Turkey and while I question IF they should have fired, the Russians are flat-out lying and if anything they've had it coming. They brought this on themselves.

 

[AWP]

I've tried to merge all of the post related to the shootdown into this thread. It bridges the gaps between other threads, but we started to have discussions in two different places. This is just a housekeeping move. I didn't delete any posts so if they are gone from the original thread, check here.

 

[Frank S.]

What a mess.

We are on the verge of WWIII.

Nothing is fucked. nothing is fucked, Dude...

 

[Rapid]

Russia says Turkey 'shot down plane for IS oil' - BBC News

Russia says Turkey 'shot down plane for IS oil'

Oh shit, Russia's calling out Turkey on their bullshit. We all knew it for a long time, but world leaders weren't saying shit.

Whether or not that's why the plane was shot down, I'm glad the fucking Turks don't get away with this unscathed. I positively hate Russia in nearly everything else they do, but yeah...

 

[Gunz]

The Turks are probably making a fortune from the flow of black market ISIL crude oil smuggled in by truck. So many money-making possibilites from any angle, bribes, payoffs, tolls, taxes, a percentage of profits, all under the table.

This is an interesting paper on the IS crude oil smuggling routes.

http://www.marsecreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/PAPER-on-CRUDE-OIL-and-ISIS.pdf