Two Dallas PD officers shot at protest

First off RIP to all involved, and speedy recoveries to those being treated currently.








Now I have to say this thread is pretty goddamn absurd.

There are of course the pro-gun posts, which I understand, this is a mil forum. There are the underhanded racist posts which surprised me, then come the blatant conspiracy theory posts. All mixed in with a lot of not understanding the things being mocked.

It is funny to me actually, how in America today we cannot even say something might be fucked up without screaming xxxx LiVES MATTER! Of course they do, no reasonable person is saying they don't. Saying Black Lives matter doesn't even imply others don't. Saying eagles soar doesn't preclude other birds from flying.

We can't say that maybe people have reason to be upset when there is a video on the Internet of a cop shooting a dude point blank in the chest, while he seemed to be restrained. Obviously everyone isn't an expert in police tactics, we cannot all be experts in everything, but instead of even explaining it, or trying to see another point of view, it is "my privelege, and COP LIVES MATTER, and you weren't there, ...etc" both sides, instead of waiting for an investigation, went full fucking ballistic. This is a product of the world we live in, where video is changing the way we see interactions with police.

I'm not a police expert, but that shooting looked pretty goddamn terrible to me and probably a 100 million other Americans. I know shoot no shoots are stressful, and I cannot imagine what that officer is going through, not only from the shooting, but with all that has happened since. I also feel for the family of the gentleman that was shot, who have to watch him be shot point blank by the people we expect to protect us.

I know what is going to be responded to in this post. Someone will probably say I don't have any idea about use of force, like I said, I don't in the modern urban crime environment. Someone else will probably say that dude was a criminal, ok. Lastly some of the stats posted here straight up do not account for all kinds of wicked variables. I am too busy to go through and point out all the ways they are off, yet again. Bring on the hates.
 
TLDR20 said:
First off RIP to all involved, and speedy recoveries to those being treated currently.








Now I have to say this thread is pretty goddamn absurd.

There are of course the pro-gun posts, which I understand, this is a mil forum. There are the underhanded racist posts which surprised me, then come the blatant conspiracy theory posts. All mixed in with a lot of not understanding the things being mocked.

It is funny to me actually, how in America today we cannot even say something might be fucked up without screaming xxxx LiVES MATTER! Of course they do, no reasonable person is saying they don't. Saying Black Lives matter doesn't even imply others don't. Saying eagles soar doesn't preclude other birds from flying.

We can't say that maybe people have reason to be upset when there is a video on the Internet of a cop shooting a dude point blank in the chest, while he seemed to be restrained. Obviously everyone isn't an expert in police tactics, we cannot all be experts in everything, but instead of even explaining it, or trying to see another point of view, it is "my privelege, and COP LIVES MATTER, and you weren't there, ...etc" both sides, instead of waiting for an investigation, went full fucking ballistic. This is a product of the world we live in, where video is changing the way we see interactions with police.

I'm not a police expert, but that shooting looked pretty goddamn terrible to me and probably a 100 million other Americans. I know shoot no shoots are stressful, and I cannot imagine what that officer is going through, not only from the shooting, but with all that has happened since. I also feel for the family of the gentleman that was shot, who have to watch him be shot point blank by the people we expect to protect us.

I know what is going to be responded to in this post. Someone will probably say I don't have any idea about use of force, like I said, I don't in the modern urban crime environment. Someone else will probably say that dude was a criminal, ok. Lastly some of the stats posted here straight up do not account for all kinds of wicked variables. I am too busy to go through and point out all the ways they are off, yet again. Bring on the hates.
Click to expand...

Which shooting looked terrible to you? Dallas or Minnesota?
 
TLDR20 said:
First off RIP to all involved, and speedy recoveries to those being treated currently.








Now I have to say this thread is pretty goddamn absurd.

There are of course the pro-gun posts, which I understand, this is a mil forum. There are the underhanded racist posts which surprised me, then come the blatant conspiracy theory posts. All mixed in with a lot of not understanding the things being mocked.

It is funny to me actually, how in America today we cannot even say something might be fucked up without screaming xxxx LiVES MATTER! Of course they do, no reasonable person is saying they don't. Saying Black Lives matter doesn't even imply others don't. Saying eagles soar doesn't preclude other birds from flying.

We can't say that maybe people have reason to be upset when there is a video on the Internet of a cop shooting a dude point blank in the chest, while he seemed to be restrained. Obviously everyone isn't an expert in police tactics, we cannot all be experts in everything, but instead of even explaining it, or trying to see another point of view, it is "my privelege, and COP LIVES MATTER, and you weren't there, ...etc" both sides, instead of waiting for an investigation, went full fucking ballistic. This is a product of the world we live in, where video is changing the way we see interactions with police.

I'm not a police expert, but that shooting looked pretty goddamn terrible to me and probably a 100 million other Americans. I know shoot no shoots are stressful, and I cannot imagine what that officer is going through, not only from the shooting, but with all that has happened since. I also feel for the family of the gentleman that was shot, who have to watch him be shot point blank by the people we expect to protect us.

I know what is going to be responded to in this post. Someone will probably say I don't have any idea about use of force, like I said, I don't in the modern urban crime environment. Someone else will probably say that dude was a criminal, ok. Lastly some of the stats posted here straight up do not account for all kinds of wicked variables. I am too busy to go through and point out all the ways they are off, yet again. Bring on the hates.
Click to expand...

No hate, brother. For the most part I agree with you. I just want to clarify something- are you talking about the Baton Rouge or the Minnesota shooting? To me, they're completely different as each shooting incident is unique.
 
policemedic said:
No hate, brother. For the most part I agree with you. I just want to clarify something- are you talking about the Baton Rouge or the Minnesota shooting? To me, they're completely different as each shooting incident is unique.
Click to expand...

The Baton Rouge shooting was the most egregious.
 
TLDR20 said:
The Baton Rouge shooting was the most egregious.
Click to expand...

I don't know enough about the Minnesota shooting to provide informed commentary, at least at a significant level.

The Baton Rouge shooting I have no problem with, and I expect that a fair and complete investigation will exonerate the officers. It may help their cause to have an expert provide an informed opinion, but the officers themselves should be able to articulate sufficient danger of imminent death or serious bodily injury under the circumstances as they knew them to justify their actions.

I do understand why it looks bad, and can understand the initial reaction from many people. What this shooting and the public reaction to it show me as a professional in the field is that the Baton Rouge PD completely screwed the pooch on the PR aspect of this incident. Proper management of the flow of accurate, correct information to the press along with a transparent attitude would have helped them shape the narrative and minimize backlash.
 
Last edited:
policemedic said:
I don't know enough about the Minnesota shooting to provide informed commentary, at least at a significant level.

The Baton Rouge shooting I have no problem with, and I expect that a fair and complete investigation will exonerate the officers. It may help their cause to have an expert provide an informed opinion, but the officers themselves should be able to articulate sufficient danger of imminent death or serious bodily injury under the circumstances as they knew them to justify their actions.

I do understand why it looks bad, and can understand the initial reaction from many people. What this shooting and the public reaction to it show me as a professional in the field is that the Baton Rouge PD completely screwed the pooch on the PR aspect of this incident. Proper management of the flow of accurate, correct information to the press along with a transparent attitude would have helped them shape the narrative and minimize backlash.
Click to expand...

Yeah to me, being uninformed in the ROE's it looks like they shot a dude in the chest point blank while his hands were being held. I think that is what it looks like to a lot of Americans.
 
TLDR20 said:
Yeah to me, being uninformed in the ROE's it looks like they shot a dude in the chest point blank while his hands were being held. I think that is what it looks like to a lot of Americans.
Click to expand...

It's not so much understanding the ROEs as it is understanding just how easy it is to fire that gun from the pocket and how fast that can happen despite the way things looked. Long story short, they didn't have control of him. This could easily have gone another way.

I do think many people view it as you do for the same reasons. This is why we in LE need to be unafraid of having a public conversation and laying out the details of incidents like these. Of course, there is a need to protect the investigation and so maybe not everything can or should be released, but a discussion and explanation of the threat the officers faced is appropriate.

Of course, this all requires a chief with intestinal fortitude.
 
TLDR20 said:
Yeah to me, being uninformed in the ROE's it looks like they shot a dude in the chest point blank while his hands were being held. I think that is what it looks like to a lot of Americans.
Click to expand...

You have a unique way of seeing things. Looked like he was not complying with the officers and was armed with a gun. I would've shot the dude too.

There is a lot more to the Minnesota story than what the dudes girlfriend is saying. 1) he didn't have a CCW license, 2) the gun was sitting on his leg as the officer approached and 3) he was pulled over because he met the discription of an armed robbery suspect.

4 Things You Must Know About Philando Castile Before Another Cop Dies

I'll leave the right or wrong to the IA investigation and or grand jury. BUT I can confidentiality say that LEO's are not out and about randomly killing black men for no reason whatsoever. I don't think it's just that it's on video either. I think people have become so fucking stupid, that they will believe anything. Some girlfriend or some media twist, or some liberal retard blaming the "white man" for not feeling the pains of the black community. Or the people who actually put themselves in these situations of life or death. Really you are so afraid of cops killing you and such a law abiding citizen that you kept your pistol on your fucking lap during a traffic stop. No, you're a fucking dumbass and just won the dirt nap award for it.

I think people need to stop being stupid and wake up to the bullshit...
 
TLDR20 said:
Yeah to me, being uninformed in the ROE's it looks like they shot a dude in the chest point blank while his hands were being held. I think that is what it looks like to a lot of Americans.
Click to expand...

I was having a discussion about Baton Rouge on Facebook with someone the other night. She was upset that I was withholding my opinion (judgment) until more video footage was released, meaning "I want to see the body cameras, other angles." I found myself on the receiving end of a tirade about how "This isn't the NFL, you don't need extra videos, the one is enough! It's high quality, it's not from the government, and it shows he was murdered." I managed to explain that what may appear cut and dry from one angle may be quite the opposite from another angle. It was only when I mentioned that it was possible that the body cameras could just as easily corroborate the cell phone video as disprove it that the uneducated estrogen parrot even thought to accept the body camera footage as evidence.

A lot of Americans refuse to acknowledge evidence that would disprove their assumptions. They want it to look a certain way, would rather choke in their sleep than be proven wrong, and fantasize about hurting those who would challenge their myopic perceptions.
 
racing_kitty said:
I was having a discussion about Baton Rouge on Facebook with someone the other night. She was upset that I was withholding my opinion (judgment) until more video footage was released, meaning "I want to see the body cameras, other angles." I found myself on the receiving end of a tirade about how "This isn't the NFL, you don't need extra videos, the one is enough! It's high quality, it's not from the government, and it shows he was murdered." I managed to explain that what may appear cut and dry from one angle may be quite the opposite from another angle. It was only when I mentioned that it was possible that the body cameras could just as easily corroborate the cell phone video as disprove it that the uneducated estrogen parrot even thought to accept the body camera footage as evidence.

A lot of Americans refuse to acknowledge evidence that would disprove their assumptions. They want it to look a certain way, would rather choke in their sleep than be proven wrong, and fantasize about hurting those who would challenge their myopic perceptions.
Click to expand...

I have seen it from two angles now. To me, it still looks bad.

I said though I will wait for an investigation. I think it is silly to judge it now. But I for sure get it.
 
TLDR20 said:
Yeah to me, being uninformed in the ROE's it looks like they shot a dude in the chest point blank while his hands were being held. I think that is what it looks like to a lot of Americans.
Click to expand...
Right hand was free and he was reaching for his gun.
One of the Cops (sounds to me anyway) says gun, and the cop on the right starts shooting.
 
DA SWO said:
Right hand was free and he was reaching for his gun.
One of the Cops (sounds to me anyway) says gun, and the cop on the right starts shooting.
Click to expand...

Like I said, I'm no expert, it looked bad to me. If you are an expert then you know what's up.
 
TLDR20 said:
Like I said, I'm no expert, it looked bad to me. If you are an expert then you know what's up.
Click to expand...

The bigger question is why is expert opinion so casually disregarded ? Don't get me wrong--I know you're not doing this. But many people don't want to hear from those with actual knowledge, training, and experience because it conflicts with what they have been conditioned to believe.
 

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