Two Dallas PD officers shot at protest

policemedic said:
The bigger question is why is expert opinion so casually disregarded ? Don't get me wrong--I know you're not doing this. But many people don't want to hear from those with actual knowledge, training, and experience because it conflicts with what they have been conditioned to believe.
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That is what I want. I want to know why a guy on the ground being held down by two officers was shot in the chest. No taser? No spray? Why was the pistol out already before he was known to have a weapon? Why was one hand on a gun instead of contributing to the fight?

These are serious questions. I'm not trying to be obtuse.
 
TLDR20 said:
That is what I want. I want to know why a guy on the ground being held down by two officers was shot in the chest. No taser? No spray? Why was the pistol out already before he was known to have a weapon? Why was one hand on a gun instead of contributing to the fight?

These are serious questions. I'm not trying to be obtuse.
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The angle I saw he was resisting and trying to get to the gun. It happened quick, but that right hand is definitely reaching and he is most definitely not passive. He didn't tap and the other guys kept going. Good shoot. FYI, the pistol didn't come out until after the officer on the left stated "he has a gun", probably a full second after.

Baton Rouge, I'll wait for the release of the dash cam. The video making the rounds in the media are all after the fact. We know he had a gun on his right hip and reached that way. The main question is whether he had been instructed (after notifying the LEO) to present his ID. If he notified the cop that he had a firearm and THEN the officer directed him to get his ID it's a bad shoot. If he reached for the gun without warning or he didn't notify until after he was in motion, then good shoot. From the bits on the video, there's no way to know.
 
TLDR20 said:
That is what I want. I want to know why a guy on the ground being held down by two officers was shot in the chest. No taser? No spray? Why was the pistol out already before he was known to have a weapon? Why was one hand on a gun instead of contributing to the fight?

These are serious questions. I'm not trying to be obtuse.
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Would you trust the officers of the law and court to investigate and present the facts to a DA or grand jury and accept their decision?

We as the public don't always get all the facts.
 
Beagle said:
Interesting....not sure it's true or not

Confirmed – Philando Castile Was an Armed Robbery Suspect – False Media Narrative Now Driving Cop Killings…

Saint Anthony, MN, Police Officers Jeronimo Yanez and Joseph Kauser pulled over Mr. Castile and Ms. Reynolds because the driver, Philando Castile, matched the suspect profile in an armed robbery which occurred on July 2nd, at a convenience store, only a few blocks from where their car was pulled over.
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Possible, but there are a ton of assumptions in that article.
 
Taser? Spray? Escalation of force.

You meet, or exceed, the force level that is presented to you.

Dude's being noncompliant on a stop on the street. Clear hands. Kerzap or PSSHT.
Dude being noncompliant with a known or suspected weapon, you're drawing down. If he's fighting with a known or suspected weapon, then the levels get raised.

Less than lethal/Less Lethal is not what you work through blindly. It's what you work through, and bypass, when the threat level dictates. This is shit I learned even as just a lowly armed guard.

Compliant subject. You talk.
Noncompliant and unarmed, requires apprehension, LL/LTL to bring into compliance and apprehend.
Noncompliant and armed, you go straight to gun, aimed until compliance or aimed and fired if the threat level is enough.

Even LTL/LL you still back up with guns, because pepperspray doesn't do a whole lot, and tasers aren't always this magic fishflop box you can rely on.
 
TLDR20 said:
That is what I want. I want to know why a guy on the ground being held down by two officers was shot in the chest. No taser? No spray? Why was the pistol out already before he was known to have a weapon? Why was one hand on a gun instead of contributing to the fight?

These are serious questions. I'm not trying to be obtuse.
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I thought the tazed him twice with no impact.
Will have to check again.
 
compforce said:
The angle I saw he was resisting and trying to get to the gun. It happened quick, but that right hand is definitely reaching and he is most definitely not passive. He didn't tap and the other guys kept going. Good shoot. FYI, the pistol didn't come out until after the officer on the left stated "he has a gun", probably a full second after.

Minnesota, I'll wait for the release of the dash cam. The video making the rounds in the media are all after the fact. We know he had a gun on his right hip and reached that way. The main question is whether he had been instructed (after notifying the LEO) to present his ID. If he notified the cop that he had a firearm and THEN the officer directed him to get his ID it's a bad shoot. If he reached for the gun without warning or he didn't notify until after he was in motion, then good shoot. From the bits on the video, there's no way to know.
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FIFY
 
Ranger Psych said:
Taser? Spray? Escalation of force.

You meet, or exceed, the force level that is presented to you.

Dude's being noncompliant on a stop on the street. Clear hands. Kerzap or PSSHT.
Dude being noncompliant with a known or suspected weapon, you're drawing down. If he's fighting with a known or suspected weapon, then the levels get raised.

Less than lethal/Less Lethal is not what you work through blindly. It's what you work through, and bypass, when the threat level dictates. This is shit I learned even as just a lowly armed guard.

Compliant subject. You talk.
Noncompliant and unarmed, requires apprehension, LL/LTL to bring into compliance and apprehend.
Noncompliant and armed, you go straight to gun, aimed until compliance or aimed and fired if the threat level is enough.

Even LTL/LL you still back up with guns, because pepperspray doesn't do a whole lot, and tasers aren't always this magic fishflop box you can rely on.
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Cool.

We have many experts here.

I'm glad I get informed by them. One of my points was that is not how most people are getting info. To them they see something that looks jacked, they don't have training or understanding to realize that the force applied was neccesary.

I'm going to wait to see if there is a grand jury, then I'll wait and see what those charges are.
 
There's a photo circulating of the shitbag right after the explosives were detonated.
 
TLDR20 said:
First off RIP to all involved, and speedy recoveries to those being treated currently.








Now I have to say this thread is pretty goddamn absurd.

There are of course the pro-gun posts, which I understand, this is a mil forum. There are the underhanded racist posts which surprised me, then come the blatant conspiracy theory posts. All mixed in with a lot of not understanding the things being mocked.

It is funny to me actually, how in America today we cannot even say something might be fucked up without screaming xxxx LiVES MATTER! Of course they do, no reasonable person is saying they don't. Saying Black Lives matter doesn't even imply others don't. Saying eagles soar doesn't preclude other birds from flying.

We can't say that maybe people have reason to be upset when there is a video on the Internet of a cop shooting a dude point blank in the chest, while he seemed to be restrained. Obviously everyone isn't an expert in police tactics, we cannot all be experts in everything, but instead of even explaining it, or trying to see another point of view, it is "my privelege, and COP LIVES MATTER, and you weren't there, ...etc" both sides, instead of waiting for an investigation, went full fucking ballistic. This is a product of the world we live in, where video is changing the way we see interactions with police.

I'm not a police expert, but that shooting looked pretty goddamn terrible to me and probably a 100 million other Americans. I know shoot no shoots are stressful, and I cannot imagine what that officer is going through, not only from the shooting, but with all that has happened since. I also feel for the family of the gentleman that was shot, who have to watch him be shot point blank by the people we expect to protect us.

I know what is going to be responded to in this post. Someone will probably say I don't have any idea about use of force, like I said, I don't in the modern urban crime environment. Someone else will probably say that dude was a criminal, ok. Lastly some of the stats posted here straight up do not account for all kinds of wicked variables. I am too busy to go through and point out all the ways they are off, yet again. Bring on the hates.
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I think most Americans are upset by the MSM spin associated with the "news" from the events.
 

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