United States & Gun Control discussion.

[Totentanz]

ETA: I love how it was now all Mark Herring's fault.

Don't know what everyone else was reading when this first started going down, but I saw Herring's name all over the decision from those who were covering it. While I won't doubt that the governor was heavily involved in his AG's decision, as far as I read it was just that - the AG's decision. Herring's name being attached to it is nothing new.

Cook asks Virginia to reverse decision on handgun reciprocity
Virginia halts concealed carry reciprocity with 25 states
Virginia limits gun reciprocity; critics say North Carolina rules stronger
Virginia revokes handgun permit agreement with North Carolina, 24 other states

 

[Red Flag 1]

Don't know what everyone else was reading when this first started going down, but I saw Herring's name all over the decision from those who were covering it. While I won't doubt that the governor was heavily involved in his AG's decision, as far as I read it was just that - the AG's decision. Herring's name being attached to it is nothing new.

Cook asks Virginia to reverse decision on handgun reciprocity
Virginia halts concealed carry reciprocity with 25 states
Virginia limits gun reciprocity; critics say North Carolina rules stronger
Virginia revokes handgun permit agreement with North Carolina, 24 other states

Good on ya, Sen. Cook!!

 

[Brill]

In recent 12 year span 60% of gun " violence" was actually suicide? Hmmm...odd that this isn't widely known, or is it?

U.S. gun violence: The story in graphics - CNN.com

 

[Grunt]

In recent 12 year span 60% of gun " violence" was actually suicide? Hmmm...odd that this isn't widely known, or is it?

U.S. gun violence: The story in graphics - CNN.com

Brother, you have dug deep into the "logic" bin. Those that hate guns won't go there because it won't fit into their narrative. But, after all, if the evil gun didn't exist, they wouldn't be able to use them to commit suicide. It's a no win situation for the "gun lovers."

 

[AWP]

In recent 12 year span 60% of gun " violence" was actually suicide? Hmmm...odd that this isn't widely known, or is it?

U.S. gun violence: The story in graphics - CNN.com

I've seen it in other stories and studies. My opinion is that we're focused on dead kids and emotional topics but that's clearly not working well enough for the anti-2A crowd. They can't dispute homicides have decreased, or increased in states with stricter gun control laws, so they lean on the emotional. At some point that will run its course and they'll only be left with, barring a string of mass shootings in places like schools and churches, the suicide numbers. For now suicides don't play well with the masses in part because of the social and religious stigmas associated with the act coupled with our indifference to mental health issues.

I half expect someone to drag out the number of veteran suicides per day and correlate it to veterans support of the 2A to undermine some of the pro-2A crowd/ argument.

 

[pardus]

I've seen it in other stories and studies. My opinion is that we're focused on dead kids and emotional topics but that's clearly not working well enough for the anti-2A crowd. They can't dispute homicides have decreased, or increased in states with stricter gun control laws, so they lean on the emotional. At some point that will run its course and they'll only be left with, barring a string of mass shootings in places like schools and churches, the suicide numbers. For now suicides don't play well with the masses in part because of the social and religious stigmas associated with the act coupled with our indifference to mental health issues.

I half expect someone to drag out the number of veteran suicides per day and correlate it to veterans support of the 2A to undermine some of the pro-2A crowd/ argument.

I bet cash money that has already been postulated by some idiot!

 

[AWP]

I bet cash money that has already been postulated by some idiot!

Given my low regard for humanity you don't expect me to take that bet, do you?

 

[Ooh-Rah]

...hmmm...

I can easily be convinced on either side of this argument...very interested in some additional opinions....

Richfield gun seizure raises question of mental illness and 2nd Amendment rights

Ralph Gilbertsen says the CIA has been stalking him for two decades. He believes in Bigfoot. He has seen a UFO.
And he wants his guns back. Richfield police came to his door one day last year and took them away. Now Gilbertsen, a 74-year-old former security guard and Marine Reservist, is in court to force police to return the three handguns they seized. His case raises the question of how to balance mental illness with the Second Amendment right to bear arms. He has alarmed Richfield police, city officials and managers of his apartment building with a series of letters alleging constant and escalating harassment by the CIA.

 

[Gunz]

...hmmm...

I can easily be convinced on either side of this argument...very interested in some additional opinions....

Richfield gun seizure raises question of mental illness and 2nd Amendment rights

Ralph Gilbertsen says the CIA has been stalking him for two decades. He believes in Bigfoot. He has seen a UFO.
And he wants his guns back. Richfield police came to his door one day last year and took them away. Now Gilbertsen, a 74-year-old former security guard and Marine Reservist, is in court to force police to return the three handguns they seized. His case raises the question of how to balance mental illness with the Second Amendment right to bear arms. He has alarmed Richfield police, city officials and managers of his apartment building with a series of letters alleging constant and escalating harassment by the CIA.

I knew a guy like this. Same CIA paranoia deal. I frisked him once and he had a big Gerber knife taped to his calf. Taped. Like clear packaging tape all wrinkled and adhering to his leg hair. He told me he was being tailed by the CIA because of his close association with Castro. To my knowledge he never hurt anybody, he'd never been arrested and he did own some guns, including a Mossberg shotgun he used to carry in his car.

My take on him was that he was basically harmless but that he'd invented this persona to give the impression he was an action guy, involved in danger and intrigue...and ended up kind of believing it himself.
He had a steady job as an unarmed security guard and from all reports was a good employee.

So, is the guy in your post above just a harmless Walter Mitty type or a keg of powder waiting to explode? Has he ever been Baker-Acted; has he ever been adjudged mentally unfit? Has he ever been violent? My 2c is, if the answer to the above questions are "no" and his record is clean, nobody has any business taking his guns. It's neither a crime nor evidence of insanity for someone to believe in Bigfoot or UFOs--there are plenty of TV shows devoted to both. Is writing a letter to cops complaining about perceived CIA harassment a crime? Not that I know of. Look, at some point some nut with a clean record is going to go postal and nobody would've seen it coming. That's unfortunate but it's going to happen. But it doesn't mean we need to confiscate legally owned firearms from eccentrics.

 

[Marine0311]

West Virginia Overrides Governor’s Veto To Pass Radical NRA-Backed Gun Law

Gun owners in West Virginia will no longer need to get a permit to have a concealed weapon, putting it among the most far-reaching states for gun rights. The House voted on the measure Friday and officially overrode a gubernatorial veto on Saturday.

The law, which does away with the permit and training program for people 21 and older who want to carry a concealed weapon, was supported by the National Rifle Association, but opposed by law enforcement across the state.






Interesting. I can see both sides of this though.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Nice to see another state move towards constitutional carry, but I don't like the fact they got rid of their licensing procedures.

 

[policemedic]

Nice to see another state move towards constitutional carry, but I don't like the fact they got rid of their licensing procedures.

You're contradicting yourself. By definition, constitutional carry doesn't require a license.

 

[CQB]

No-one saw Man Harun Monis coming either, (Sydney siege guy) despite a file you could not jump over. Ignore at your peril.

 

[Marine0311]

No-one saw Man Harun Monis coming either, (Sydney siege guy) despite a file you could not jump over. Ignore at your peril.

That is what bothers me. I believe there has to be some checks and balances.

 

[ThunderHorse]

You're contradicting yourself. By definition, constitutional carry doesn't require a license.

In Arizona when they passed the Constitutional carry law they kept the licensing procedures in place. They did this so if citizens chose to carry outside of Arizona and the state had a reciprocal agreement they would still be able to apply for CCW Licenses in AZ.

 

[AWP]

In Arizona when they passed the Constitutional carry law they kept the licensing procedures in place. They did this so if citizens chose to carry outside of Arizona and the state had a reciprocal agreement they would still be able to apply for CCW Licenses in AZ.

I'm not zinging you personally because that isn't your law, but that's the dumbest logic ever. If their intent is to help resident carry in another state then WTF kind of thinking is that? Arizona's concern is....I'll go out on a limb and say "Arizona's." If a citizen travels out of state and becomes a local sheriff's guest that isn't on AZ. Their argument is disingenuous garbage which allows it keep licensing in place under the guise of "helping" its residents.

 

[DA SWO]

I'm not zinging you personally because that isn't your law, but that's the dumbest logic ever. If their intent is to help resident carry in another state then WTF kind of thinking is that? Arizona's concern is....I'll go out on a limb and say "Arizona's." If a citizen travels out of state and becomes a local sheriff's guest that isn't on AZ. Their argument is disingenuous garbage which allows it keep licensing in place under the guise of "helping" its residents.

No, many states have reciprocity with respect to concealed carry, I need a permit/license from my state to prove I am legal, otherwise I have to get a non-resident permit from another state (which may or may not be honored).
I have no issue with a license, all Constitutional Carry should mean is I can go to the DMV and get a photo ID made, then take that ID when I travel.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

I've got a non-resident CWP from AZ, cheaper, didn't have to do anything but send fingerprint cards, 1 page application copy of my DD214, and $60 and GTG for 5 yrs. I'm a resident of TX and probably always will be, but until TX gets right with their CHL stuff, I'll go through AZ, plenty of reciprocity, especially and most importantly in TX, I don't have to take classes from unqualified blow hards or shoot stupid CoF for a qualification. Just send my money, background and DD214. I like that for me, but I wouldn't recommend it for all, I read the law weekly, always checking case laws and I can consistently shoot a 90+ on a NRA 25yd pistol bull.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

That is what bothers me. I believe there has to be some checks and balances.

Although I agree with checks and balances, I've always considered all the other laws the checks and balances. That said, I've really tried to game it out and see what laws/restrictions would work or are reasonable. I always come back to, who in the constitution has the authority or right to restrict my rights? In reality, we already have trampled on the rights of far too many with our current gun control laws.

$.02

 

[AWP]

I think you guys misunderstand. As written, they can carry in AZ without a license but left the license requirement in place so residents can use it in other states. That's nonsense and hypocritical. Residents who want to travel and carry concealed should obtain an AZ license and the reciprocity it contains. For anyone who doesn't want to carry outside of the state they shouldn't be required given "Constitutional carry."