United States & Gun Control discussion.

[Ooh-Rah]

ETA: So I can firmly understand your position, if it was inside his home but he shot through his bedroom door how would you react?

Your scenario is not even remotely similar. If I’m locked in my bedroom and somebody is actively attempting to break the door down, bang bang.

That was not the situation in this case, he received an alert that “someone or something“ was in his garage. He left the safety of his home, went to the garage and then fired blindly through the windowless door.

His garage had been repeatedly broken into, it wasn't a raccoon.

How would he know?

 

[AWP]

Michigan man charged after fatally shooting teen who broke into garage

This will be interesting to follow. But how about you don't break into peoples homes?

The homeowner will get jammed up, rightfully so, for firing on a fleeing suspect. With Stand Your Ground, firing through a door in your own home...a DA/ jury can go either way. When you reload and go outside to shoot someone fleeing the scene, that's no long SYG territory.
MCL - Section 780.972 - Michigan Legislature

FL is even more restrictive. Even an LEO cannot shoot a fleeing suspect unless the suspect is a fleeing felon " poses a threat of death or serious physical harm to the officer or others" or " committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm to another person."
Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

The manslaughter charge is appropriate.

 

[Devildoc]

......He left the safety of his home, went to the garage and then fired blindly through the windowless door.

I think that depends on the state and the language of the Castle Doctrine (if that state has one).

 

[The Quartermaster]

He left the safety of his home, went to the garage...



How would he know?

It's still a bad shoot because as you stated that he fired blindly through the door. But under Michigan's castle doctrine, a garage is also the sanctity of his home. He never left that sanctity. He fired blindly and wanted him dead is what got him arrested.

 

[The Quartermaster]

I think that depends on the state and the language of the Castle Doctrine (if that state has one).

Michigan has a castle law and a garage is part of that castle to them. Here in AZ, we have no duty to retreat and stand your ground laws, and leaving a home to go to the garage to confront is standing our grounds because that garage is still considered your home, and 100% no bill, no jail, lol later to the anti self defense haters.

 

[Devildoc]

Michigan has a castle law and a garage is part of that castle to them. Here in AZ, we have no duty to retreat and stand your ground laws, and leaving a home to go to the garage to confront is standing our grounds because that garage is still considered your home, and 100% no bill, no jail, lol later to the anti self defense haters.

North Carolina has the Castle Doctrine and stand your ground/stand your ground laws. I remember the case that moved the legislature to write the law, a local guy was in his home, it was being broken into, he shot one guy (dead, if I recall), the other guy tried to escape, the homeowner caught him, pulled him back to his porch, and shot him (didn't kill him, if I recall).

 

[The Quartermaster]

North Carolina has the Castle Doctrine and stand your ground/stand your ground laws. I remember the case that moved the legislature to write the law, a local guy was in his home, it was being broken into, he shot one guy (dead, if I recall), the other guy tried to escape, the homeowner caught him, pulled him back to his porch, and shot him (didn't kill him, if I recall).

I don't condone dragging a person back in and then trying to anchor however I do understand haha.

If they flee, my duty and rights to self defense has ended. If they are still shooting at me while fleeing, only then can I legally shoot again.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Your scenario is not even remotely similar. If I’m locked in my bedroom and somebody is actively attempting to break the door down, bang bang.

That was not the situation in this case, he received an alert that “someone or something“ was in his garage. He left the safety of his home, went to the garage and then fired blindly through the windowless door.



How would he know?

From the article:

Lustig told reporters that Knapton’s home had been broken into multiple times before and that local police merely encouraged him to get a better home alert system.

So he's known that people have been attempting to deprive him of his property, and he's supposed to just let that happen. Yes, he fired through a door and struck on of the alleged trespassers. But let's step back here, why were 6 late teen boys breaking into another man's property?

I don't know what getting a better home alert system means because we in fact don't know what system he had, if it was a ring camera then he knows people were there. If it was just a sensor, then maybe he needs to hold them at gun point I suppose. Yet, I'm sympathetic to someone whose on his own property defending his possessions.

 

[Devildoc]

I don't condone dragging a person back in and then trying to anchor however I do understand haha.

If they flee, my duty and rights to self defense has ended. If they are still shooting at me while fleeing, only then can I legally shoot again.

To the first, I concur. I believe one of the jurors (and the guy was found guilt of manslaughter, I believe) said the quiet part out loud, paraphrasing, 'if the guy had not left evidence outside his house I would not have voted to convict.'

To the second, same in NC.

 

[The Quartermaster]

From the article:



So he's known that people have been attempting to deprive him of his property, and he's supposed to just let that happen. Yes, he fired through a door and struck on of the alleged trespassers. But let's step back here, why were 6 late teen boys breaking into another man's property?

I don't know what getting a better home alert system means because we in fact don't know what system he had, if it was a ring camera then he knows people were there. If it was just a sensor, then maybe he needs to hold them at gun point I suppose. Yet, I'm sympathetic to someone whose on his own property defending his possessions.

If he saw them in the video and they were pointing guns at the door, then he has them dead to rights to fire through. I've seen this before where they tried fooling the homeowner that they were the police and had guns pointed at the door and at the windows. He mag dumped behind the door. No charges for him.

This father shot through the door and killed him, the kid was unarmed but the father was still not charged.

I'd like to see the evidence of a weapon being readied at the homeowner's door before condemning him, but it sounds right now that it was a bad shoot.

There needs to be reasonable proof here, and not taking the cops side either as they can and have been wrong at times.

 

[Kraut783]

Video shows the subject is trying to break down the door, not push open the door. Subject told to leave, subject returned...told to leave again and then tried to break in.

Would have been a grand jury referral in Texas.

 

[AWP]

I don't condone dragging a person back in and then trying to anchor however I do understand haha.

I worked with a woman who was a multi-time recipient of domestic violence. Beatings, kicking her when she's on the floor type beatings. Eventually she tossed the guy out and divorced him.

Like a typical POS who beats women and has to control them, he kept coming back and back and the inevitable restraining order followed. Still, he would return to her home and harass her. He's no stranger to the local police.

One night he's eleventy deep into a suitcase of beer and started banging on her door. She called 911 and then shot him while he was standing on her porch. She then dragged him inside which is how the police found him and he went away for a few years as a guest of the state.

Legal? Nope. If I'm on her jury, she walks.

 

[Devildoc]

I worked with a woman who was a multi-time recipient of domestic violence. Beatings, kicking her when she's on the floor type beatings. Eventually she tossed the guy out and divorced him.

Like a typical POS who beats women and has to control them, he kept coming back and back and the inevitable restraining order followed. Still, he would return to her home and harass her. He's no stranger to the local police.

One night he's eleventy deep into a suitcase of beer and started banging on her door. She called 911 and then shot him while he was standing on her porch. She then dragged him inside which is how the police found him and he went away for a few years as a guest of the state.

Legal? Nope. If I'm on her jury, she walks.

I would make a horrible juror. I believe in justice, not necessarily the law.