Why Modern Soldiers are More Susceptible to Suicide

[Spider6]

I'm not saying being in the service is not an excacerbating part of the issue. I think the way we punish young immature soldiers has a lot to do with it.

Let me give a random example that if anything will go along with some points here. Imagine a young married soldier with a baby. That young soldier gets in trouble of some kind. Half pay, restriction, things like this. Now in addition to his work problems he has monetary problems, then the wife leaves. This kid is now fucked everywhere, he is a pariah at work, has no family support system and he kills himself. Is that the Army's fault? I don't know, we can't smoke soldiers now for fuck ups, so they get paperwork. I personally don't know what the solution is. I just don't think it is a 3 hour terrible PowerPoint on the issue.

Majority of Military Suicides Never Saw Combat

http://www.military.com/daily-news/...ver-saw-combat.html?comp=7000023317843&rank=1

"About 20 percent of military suicide victims in 2011 had been diagnosed with a mood disorder such as depression, the Pentagon said, and about half had suffered a failed marriage, often within months of their deaths."

It's been a little while but the above article supports what cback0220 stated earlier and a few cases I saw while in command.

 

[Florida173]

The current pussifying culture of the military means that we don't get rid of the soldiers we'd suspect of being like this sooner.

 

[amlove21]

The current pussifying culture of the military means that we don't get rid of the soldiers we'd suspect of being like this sooner.

I lol'd.

Are you suggesting we are now doing a bad job of selecting and eliminating those people that may/may not be predisposed to suicide later in their military careers by making the beginning stages of their careers too easy (e.g "pussifying"?)

Because that is not only ridiculous, but I would like to see that evidenced anywhere.

 

[Florida173]

I lol'd.

Are you suggesting we are now doing a bad job of selecting and eliminating those people that may/may not be predisposed to suicide later in their military careers by making the beginning stages of their careers too easy (e.g "pussifying"?)

Because that is not only ridiculous, but I would like to see that evidenced anywhere.

I'm guessing we've had entirely different experiences in the military..

 

[amlove21]

I'm guessing we've had entirely different experiences in the military..

Well, that's not really an answer, is it? Sort of a non-related factoid. But I'd agree that we have had very different military careers.

On what basis are you making this claim? The entire psychological community can not and has not ever been able "select out" individuals that are thinking about committing suicide years in the future. It seems as if you're stating your answer as fact. On what grounds are you implying that if we "get harder" as a military and not "pussify" the younger troops, suicide rates will drop as a result?

 

[SpongeBob*24]

Sometimes I think that those of us that do come home, need to remember that we also live for those who never will.

Well put RP.......

 

[Florida173]

Well, that's not really an answer, is it? Sort of a non-related factoid. But I'd agree that we have had very different military careers.

On what basis are you making this claim? The entire psychological community can not and has not ever been able "select out" individuals that are thinking about committing suicide years in the future. It seems as if you're stating your answer as fact. On what grounds are you implying that if we "get harder" as a military and not "pussify" the younger troops, suicide rates will drop as a result?

The word "experiences" is a good indicator

 

[TLDR20]

A guy I know, one of the hardest charging muldoons I have ever known killed himself in a motel room Tuesday. He should have been weeded out? Give me a fucking break. You could not have designed a selection to keep him out.

 

[amlove21]

The word "experiences" is a good indicator

Hey man- it's a bullshit statement. I'd be running from it too. Thing is, that dog won't hunt.

You can imply, wink wink, "knowing smile" all you want.

At this point, you can either A- back up your ridiculous claim with evidenced proof for what you say (and feel free to reference all that experience you have on the matter) or you can B- admit that was a dumb thing to say and press on.

 

[Florida173]

A guy I know, one of the hardest charging muldoons I have ever known killed himself in a motel room Tuesday. He should have been weeded out? Give me a fucking break. You could not have designed a selection to keep him out.

And you have rebutted an anecdotal answer with an anecdotal answer..

 

[Florida173]

Hey man- it's a bullshit statement. I'd be running from it too. Thing is, that dog won't hunt.

You can imply, wink wink, "knowing smile" all you want.

At this point, you can either A- back up your ridiculous claim with evidenced proof for what you say (and feel free to reference all that experience you have on the matter) or you can B- admit that was a dumb thing to say and press on.

so are those my only two options?

 

[Ranger Psych]

Third option is just stopping posting about something you aren't understanding anyway.

 

[Florida173]

Amazing I am getting so much push back on this... I'm just suggesting that some people of weak mental fortitude that previously would have been weeded out through the typical soldiering process have slipped through with a more PC atmosphere that we've had. It's not a one answer fits all obviously...

 

[amlove21]

Amazing I am getting so much push back on this.

How is it amazing that you're receiving pushback? You made an asinine statement about a process you clearly don't understand, in a public forum full of people that have actual experience. The only amazing thing is that the pushback surprises you.

I'm just suggesting that some people of weak mental fortitude that previously would have been weeded out through the typical soldiering process have slipped through with a more PC atmosphere that we've had.

We know what you're suggesting, and your suggestion is fundamentally flawed- you can't "weed out" people that may be subject to suicidal tendencies/ideations later in life or the military and countless other agencies would already employ the tactic. It is impossible, and proven through years of psychological/psychosocial experimentation to be so. For the record, you characterising people that commit suicide as those of "weak mental fortitude" only highlights your ignorance, and I take issue with it.

so are those my only two options?

Especially at this point, yes. @Ranger Psych 's third option of of stop posting would work well as an alternative.

 

[AWP]

Amazing I am getting so much push back on this... I'm just suggesting that some people of weak mental fortitude

That's one of the more insulting and ignorant statements I've seen on this board in years.

You're part of the problem because you don't understand it. People in leadership roles who have that mentality contribute to the problem. You don't need to be touchy-feely with someone who has mental health issues, but you need to be receptive to their problems. By summarily discrediting them as "weak" you've guaranteed that no one who knows your views will seek out your help. With your attitude, I really hope you are never in a leadership position.

ETA: underlined text

 

[RustyShackleford]

Many of us have been hearing about the "pussification" of the military for years. It's a work in progress. Ever changing. The problem is that people actually think that smoking the living fuck out of a guy makes him (or her) hard, and to an extent, I guess it does. Hell, I used to smoke the fuck out of guys, but I also brought some creative punishment to the table. Neither would have given me an indicator of someone who would go off and kill themselves 1, 2, 5, or 10 years down the road. Even those who are mentally tough have weak moments or go through rough times and can potentially lose hope.

Cback's analogy of the married soldier getting an article 15, losing money, etc. resulting in divorce/suicide is the flipside of the leader who only uses physical punishment as a corrective action. Both can lead to big problems and are indicative of leaders who should not be leading and is exactly why a leader should know the people working for him, and not just at the team or squad level. As an aside (and kind of off-topic), I could never figure out the CoCs that used UCMJ including loss of pay on soldiers who fucked up financially. Talk about adding fuel to the fire.

 

[Florida173]

Many of us have been hearing about the "pussification" of the military for years. It's a work in progress. Ever changing. The problem is that people actually think that smoking the living fuck out of a guy makes him (or her) hard, and to an extent, I guess it does. Hell, I used to smoke the fuck out of guys, but I also brought some creative punishment to the table. Neither would have given me an indicator of someone who would go off and kill themselves 1, 2, 5, or 10 years down the road. Even those who are mentally tough have weak moments or go through rough times and can potentially lose hope.

Cback's analogy of the married soldier getting an article 15, losing money, etc. resulting in divorce/suicide is the flipside of the leader who only uses physical punishment as a corrective action. Both can lead to big problems and are indicative of leaders who should not be leading and is exactly why a leader should know the people working for him, and not just at the team or squad level. As an aside (and kind of off-topic), I could never figure out the CoCs that used UCMJ including loss of pay on soldiers who fucked up financially. Talk about adding fuel to the fire.

That's a good point and appreciate putting that in perspective. Relating to what Spider posted on more "never deployed" soldiers committing suicide is odd from the typical narrative on the push to correlate TBI with suicide, as with football players. Although it will be interesting to see what happens with all the cuts and the lack of employment for a lot of people that have found financial stability with Overseas Contingency funds that are now going away.

That's one of the more insulting and ignorant statements I've seen on this board in years.

You're part of the problem because you don't understand it. People in leadership roles who have that mentality contribute to the problem. You don't need to be touchy-feely with someone who has mental health issues, but you need to be receptive to their problems. By summarily discrediting them as "weak" you've guaranteed that no one who knows your views will seek out your help. With your attitude, I really hope you are never in a leadership position.

ETA: underlined text

I've obviously been away from this board too long to get this much criticism.. I'm apart of the problem in that I don't typically care to empathize with other people's drama. I suppose I can blame that on too many deployments or some crap. I apologize to anyone that has taken anything I say personally, I was already in a foul mood with some of the BS going on in the industry right now directly effecting me. We've all lost enough good friends to have been effected by this and amlove21's response is just as insulting and ignorant. Rebut and take the higher ground, no need to escalate.. The common theme of pussification as RustyShackeford has suggested has been around for a few years.

Maybe it's about time to do another rotation down range or something when my contract changes soon.

 

[AWP]

I've obviously been away from this board too long to get this much criticism..

Did you read the entire thread or just dive in midway through or what? Going back to page 2/ bottom of page 1 I think several of us provided a perspective on the issue. Did you read all of that including the link in one of my posts?

 

[Florida173]

Did you read the entire thread or just dive in midway through or what? Going back to page 2/ bottom of page 1 I think several of us provided a perspective on the issue. Did you read all of that including the link in one of my posts?

I must have missed you guys also giving perspective of what I had suggested, and I didn't get a chance to read all of that on that link you gave.

 

[RetPara]

Of all the consolidated Cranial Rectal Inversion I have seen in the MI Corps.... some of these comments are amazing. Since about 2005 the military collectively has been in uncharted territory when it comes to mental health. It was documented in WWII and confirmed in conflicts since 9/11 that once a soldier breaks the 250 days in combat has a high propensity to mental issues.