Why Modern Soldiers are More Susceptible to Suicide

[Florida173]

Of all the consolidated Cranial Rectal Inversion I have seen in the MI Corps.... some of these comments are amazing. Since about 2005 the military collectively has been in uncharted territory when it comes to mental health. It was documented in WWII and confirmed in conflicts since 9/11 that once a soldier breaks the 250 days in combat has a high propensity to mental issues.

By that logic I suppose I must have retardedly high propensity to mental issues.
I don't think I could ever compare my deployments with that of vets from before 9/11 personally though..

 

[pardus]

By that logic I suppose I must have retardedly high propensity to mental issues.
I don't think I could ever compare my deployments with that of vets from before 9/11 personally though..

Well I think that would depend on your definition of "combat".
Ive seen more combat in bars than some people walking around with CIB/CMB/CAB's...

 

[Florida173]

Well I think that would depend on your definition of "combat".
Ive seen more combat in bars than some people walking around with CIB/CMB/CAB's...

Is that sans sheep?

 

[RackMaster]

By that logic I suppose I must have retardedly high propensity to mental issues.
I don't think I could ever compare my deployments with that of vets from before 9/11 personally though..

You do. But just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean the potential isn't there; it's different for everyone and we all don't respond to trauma the same way. Now that doesn't mean that the death of a family member, divorce, job loss, homelessness, etc.; won't affect you years down the road. Those events can be the final "straw" and things start spiralling.

 

[Polar Bear]

Everyone has a breaking point.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

I think a good amount has to do with what types of stress soldiers dealt with in the past prior to their combat experiences. I also believe that it depends on the levels of stress the soldier faces, in combat, from the unit he/she is assigned too and from the home front while deployed. I would also go as far as that a lot of it has to do with what the soldier takes on as added stress (a leader? Lose of a soldier? Failure in tasks or mission objectives?). There are so many factors at play and humans are so unique, it really hard to “A is caused by B”. Personally I do believe the Army went the wrong way with the suicide prevention/intervention. But that is no longer my place to judge and or cast opinions on.

I think any time that you have 11+ years of significant war; it will take its toll on any group of people and or organization. I also think that the effects of this past decade will not be fully realized for several more years.

The best I can come up with is that the Army should stop trying to place band-aids on the suicide issue and look at what needs to be done to prevent soldiers from stumbling into that breaking point in life. Either it is from better screening during enlistments, or prior to combat deployment, or even having adequate care post deployment. Some people may argue that it is being done, but I personally did not see it done (much less done well).

That said, I doubt that the problem can be eradicated or reduced to the levels of civilian society. I think military suicide “during a time of war” will always be higher than that of a civilian population unaffected by said war. It’s just the nature of the beast.

I also do not put much weight into the studies of past conflicts vs current conflicts when it comes to human behavior. The amount of restrictions placed on soldiers in today’s conflict far exceed those of past conflicts. Soldiers do not have proper decompress methods like many other conflicts allowed. Spending 15-18 months without a woman, a drink, a walk by yourself, etc, etc. All while engaging in highly complex warfare, with a non-uniformed enemy and dealing with a highly restrictive ROE.

I can go on and on, but I personally think there is a lot more to it then simply saying “this generation is touchy feely”.

 

[DAVE101]

There's so much I'd like to comment on in this thread, but I'll start from the beginning. I find the statistics on this topic very interesting and largely misinterpreted.

Your article states a rate of 9 in 100k active-duty soldiers committed suicide in 2001 increasing to 23 in 100k in 2011. By comparison, the overall national average in 2001 was 10.7 in 100k and in 2010 it only rose to 12.4 in 100k. Though if you were to drill it down even further to looking at age groups, the stats would be skewed even further since the general population already includes the military suicides and the vast majority of gen pop suicides occur in the 45+ age range.

That really isn't an appropriate comparison. The "general pop" also includes the 14 and under age bracket, which is larger than any other, and has a non-existent suicide rate. The "general pop" also includes females. This is the biggest point because the rate for men is 5 times higher than for women (average rate of 20/100K vs 4/100K). So after considering that the Military is male dominant, we are (or were) faring quite well relative to the general US pop.

http://www.afsp.org/understanding-suicide/facts-and-figures

 

[DAVE101]

Majority of Military Suicides Never Saw Combat
http://www.military.com/daily-news/...ver-saw-combat.html?comp=7000023317843&rank=1

A lot of the risk for suicide in the military is the stuff they bring with them... If these servicemembers are coming in with pre-existing vulnerabilities, it's more likely these vulnerabilities will be activated.

I saw that a few times as well. I had at least 3 Soldiers who had gotten married right out of high school and then enlisted. I got the impression that these young men thought that once they joined the service all their problems were therefore solved. In all 3 cases they couldn't provide, his young wife left and then he feels like a failure.

Yes! I think generally we get too caught up in combat = emotional disturbance. There is something to be said about predispositions. What are the demographics of a typical enlistee? Lower SES and lower level of education are common, and both put the soldier at higher risk (ref 1). That might explain the officer vs enlisted rates. A lot of young people put the military as a Plan B (to college or whatever). While there is nothing wrong with that (except that it should have been Plan A ), a sizable chunk of the military must consist of the types of people that have to rely on a back up plan. These individuals are more likely to face adversity down the road. Spider6's comment about young couples is interesting as well. Divorce rates are inversely related to age at marriage (ref 2), and nowhere else can you find so many people married/engaged before the age of 20. Couldn't that also be grounds for impulsive behavior, another risk factor?

It's fair to speculate that the military doesn't actually create emotional disturbance (any more than a civilian job). As the 2nd quote above sums up: the vulnerability is pre-existing, what happens in the service is just one way that allows it to manifest. I hope I don't catch too much flak for this.

Reference 1: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2013/feb/01/us-military-suicides-trend-charts
Reference 2: http://www.divorcerate.org/

 

[AWP]

It's fair to speculate that the military doesn't actually create emotional disturbance (any more than a civilian job).

There are a lot of civilian jobs which routinely send the employees out to be maimed or killed? How many civilian jobs are there where a failure to perform by one individual leads to another's death?

 

[DAVE101]

None. One could possibly make an argument for certain law enforcement jobs, but no civilian job will come close to the amount of stress placed on a deployed combat service member. What I meant to say is that it certainly isn't required to create the emotional problems necessary for suicidal ideation as evidenced by the "52% of suicides had never seen combat" in the link above. While it certainly can be the main cause for some, I think the predisposition plays a bigger role for the majority (again this is just speculation on my part). Otherwise wouldn't military suicide rates be muuuuuch higher than civilian's (after accounting for age/sex)?

 

[pardus]

I think predisposition can certainly play a role but I believe the nature of the job, i.e. stress, finances, lack of time to have a real life outside the uniform, the constant getting fucked around by the system and higher ups and deployments and all that entails, accounts for the greater proportion of suicide factors.
@DAVE101 I disagree with your theory about the nature of people enlisting. True there are people who enlist that do so because it's their only chance of a half decent life, but in my experience they are the minority.
Most people who enlist are smart, educated with a sound head on their shoulders, a lot are idealistic/patriotic (this alone can lead to problems*). Yes there is a lot of risk taking but that is to be expected in people who have volunteered to fight and die for their country.





*People that are told they are the best, who then discover at times of great hardship that it's not necessarily true, have a greater chance of cracking than someone more realistic/cynical. my .02c

 

[RetPara]

None. One could possibly make an argument for certain law enforcement jobs, but no civilian job will come close to the amount of stress placed on a deployed combat service member.

Consider the suicide rate of EMS, Fire, and LE. Every day at work every one of these occupations provide ample opportunity not only to get yourself killed, but to directly or indirectly cause the death of others. Find a state trooper or county sheriff to do a ride along with.

 

[Ranger Psych]

One could possibly make an argument for certain law enforcement jobs, but no civilian job will come close to the amount of stress placed on a deployed combat service member.

2011-2012, 293 Firefighters took their own lives.

As a former Ranger and former Firefighter, just with my experience in a low call density area (>1000 runs a year for my station).

• Try fighting a fire where the family members are having to be physically held back because their child is in the structure you cannot enter because it's on the verge of collapse from fire.
• Try responding to a call of "Station 61 62 63 Central ALL CALL, house explosion with entrapment, *Street you live on* numbers unknown".
• Try having to do a defensive attack on a structure because there are massive explosions inside the house due to the occupant being an Emphysema patient so you can't enter without killing yourself... and you hear her inside still.

Then come tell me that there aren't civilian jobs that come close to the mental and emotional stress of being in the military.

You're talking out of your ass, son.

 

[digrar]

Underground mine rescue, anyone who's worked on an oil rig when it's gone pear shaped, fishermen caught in a once in a lifetime storm, anyone who's worked in a petrochemical plant when it's gone pear shaped, anyone who's responded to a train smash, or earth quake, flash flooding, a farmer caught in an auger and been scalped or had an arm ripped off, I know a bloke who was bowled over by a bull and played with for 2 hours before anyone found him, he's still alive, I'd say he endured a pretty stressful time, I was at a game of local football when the 2 umpires had just finished a day of work officiating at the grand final, one of them turned on the water for the shower, water entering the improvised hot water system flashed to steam, the water vessel exploded, killed two kids, injured my sister and 3 close friends were put into the ICU for several weeks, the blast destroyed two buildings, the umpire in the shower was sliced up by the tiles, he survived but it was pretty messy. My dad has been trapped in a bush fire, I worked with a bloke who cradled his mate as he died after watching him get crushed by a large mine truck tyre, another woman killed her husband as she drove off in her mine truck, not realising he was still working on it, another bloke watched his mate sitting in a vehicle get run over by a bull dozer, a mate of mine knows of suburban train drivers who have run over multiple people who have selfishly used his train as an exit strategy. The list is endless.

 

[DAVE101]

:wall:

It is clear that I've stepped out of my lane. Please recognize that my comment was in direct response to Freefalling, who I interpreted as being agitated by my previous remark. I acknowledge (but apparently failed to in my previous post) that LE, Fire and Rescue as being just as mentally demanding, and sometimes even more-so.

The current pussifying culture of the military means that we don't get rid of the soldiers we'd suspect of being like this sooner.

So I don't care for much of the conversation that followed this, but it's interesting to speculate the reasons why the rate increased. Personally, I don't think we can make any accurate assumptions, there are just too many confounds. You know what happened in that 10 year span? A war. That alone is enough to create enough confounding variables to throw away any theory as to why this is happening. For example, recruiters must find more people to enlist. So naturally there are less stringent requirements to get in. When I went to MEPS in 2007, a good portion of my peers were HS dropouts with GEDs. So now we are working with a totally different population. Does having a GED increase one's risk for struggles down the line? Maybe. Does that make them a Pussy? Certainly not. The recent decrease in op tempo definitely gives service members an opportunity to run into trouble. I really believe there are too many variables to accurately find the reason.

Someone else commented that you can't really screen for the possibility of psychological illness years in the future. With the "strict filter" hypothesis, would we maybe see a pattern across strict/soft branches? I don't see any trends in the 2011 data:

US Army - 23/100K
US Air Force - 13/100K
US Navy - 15/100K
US Marines - 15/100K

 

[AWP]

It is clear that I've stepped out of my lane. Please recognize that my comment was in direct response to Freefalling, who I interpreted as being agitated by my previous remark. I acknowledge (but apparently failed to in my previous post) that LE, Fire and Rescue as being just as mentally demanding, and sometimes even more-so. always exist.

Agitated? No, You made it sound like Mil and civ occupations are one and the same for stressors. The overwhelming majority of civilian jobs aren't life and limb stressful like many in the military (particularly in wartime while trolling for IEDs). I wasn't attempting to discount police/ fire/ oil and gas/ etc. jobs.

I think this also underscores the nature of the problem: there is no magic bullet or "A ha!" moment where one can find a common thread from one suicide to the next. There are so many variables and combinations that you can't "profile" someone who is about to commit suicide.

I'm reminded of the Rashomon where the characters have a different interpretation or memory of past events. The same can be said for 5 people, regardless of their job, who witness a traumatic event. The event will have a different impact on each person despite their shared careerfield/ MOS.

 

[reed11b]

I still believe the increased susceptability is mostly myth. The suicide rates for young men, i.e. military aged males, is still very high on the civilian side. Yes it is a big deal that this is the first time since we started tracking such things that the military rate has gone above the civilian rate, but hardly an empidemic when compared to the civilian side. Trauma exposure has a low correlation to suicide rate BTW.
Reed

 

[Buildanddestroy]

I'd say a big part of it is a vicious cycle of playing the blame game. There isn't as much going on meant to help those in need as much as there is to cover the chain of command when something does go wrong. A world of growing redundancy. "Did we do everything we could have done to prevent this? Yes? Ok, no one gets relieved today." GAT, Suicide Prevention, miriads of briefings, and saying that it is ok to get help, when we all know once you become visible in the system, its game over. God forbid you tell anyone that you had trouble sleeping last night.