Not to detract from her fine work that day, but her boss earned a DSC for the same action; the Army PR machine probably never passed that along.
Women in Combat Arms/ SOF Discussion
- Thread starter AWP
- Start date
Not to detract from her fine work that day, but her boss earned a DSC for the same action; the Army PR machine probably never passed that along.
Saw this on the Canadian Army News site and thought I'd share to add to the discussion; perhaps one of the upsidedowners could add more.
I don't expect any of them to be able to keep up with the way we patrol. Non event and waste of time and money.
I completely agree for the majority of women but there will be some that can do just as good of a job as the average male soldier. I'm not talking some 90lb piece of trash with daddy issues that joined to prove a point.
Hey man, those kind of girls have their uses. Maybe not 90lbs, that's a little slender, but the daddy issues thing.
Defence dollars are tight in most countries, the time, effort and money spent looking for the extremely small minority and the extra infrastructure you'd need to put in place to handle them seems like something most purse string holders would baulk at if you tried to do it in an open market. In our case here in Australia, I don't agree with pissing money against the wall to pander to mainstream social/sexual equity issues.
I just read this article on Yahoo and wondered if any of the Benning guys could shed light on this situation.
http://www.businessinsider.com/women-army-ranger-school-2014-9
I'm popping my new thread cherry here so if I jacked anything up please be gentle.
http://www.businessinsider.com/women-army-ranger-school-2014-9
I'm popping my new thread cherry here so if I jacked anything up please be gentle.
Page not found but going by the URL it's been covered many times. 
https://shadowspear.com/vb/threads/females-in-ranger-school.14209/
https://shadowspear.com/vb/threads/females-in-ranger-school.14209/
Florida173
SOF Support
The link is the right one I think, but doesn't work when clicky.. odd.
Waste of money sending females simply for the fact that it's a combat leadership course. Integration should happen elsewhere first.
Waste of money sending females simply for the fact that it's a combat leadership course. Integration should happen elsewhere first.
It's the site here, not Yahoo. SS automatically capitalizes Ranger which makes the URL invalid. Just change the "R" to lowercase and it's good.
Firstpig... there is already a tasking circulating.
I dig this quote from the article:
I have known plenty of joes over the last two decades who thought they could do something that turned out to be not the case.
It's not about what you think you can do. It's about what you can demonstrate that you can do.
I have known plenty of joes over the last two decades who thought they could do something that turned out to be not the case.
The Marine Corps has been abiding the new study and have sent 14 females to the Infantry Officer Course so far, 13 of which failed on the first day. Sounds like a real waste of money, but my bet is on this is not going to work out for the "equal opportunists" at the Pentagon.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...a83ea0-b145-11e3-a49e-76adc9210f19_story.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...a83ea0-b145-11e3-a49e-76adc9210f19_story.html
Well, that happens at Ranger school all the time. Large portion of student attrition is during the initial portion of Ranger school... people think they can do what they need to be able to do, and unfortunately they can't do it to standard, or just can't do it at all.
Task, Condition, Standard. That is all.
Pretty much.
The author comes off as whiny and wanting things handed to her, IMO. "I needed more time to prepare", "It's not fair". She knew what the male standards were, no reason she couldn't train to them on her own.
It's an ALARACT message 2 parts.
1st is for female volunteers to be OC's
2nd is for candidates.
1st is for female volunteers to be OC's
2nd is for candidates.
UNCLAS
SUBJ/ALARACT 221/2014 - FEMALE OBSERVERS/ADVISORS FOR THE UNITED
STATES ARMY MANEUVER CENTER OF EXCELLENCE (MCOE) RANGER COURSE
ASSESSMENT
THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN TRANSMITTED BY US ARMY INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY
AGENCY (USAITA) ON BEHALF OF HEADQUARTERS, US ARMY TRAINING AND
DOCTRINE COMMAND (TRADOC)
SUBJECT: FEMALE OBSERVERS/ADVISORS FOR THE UNITED STATES ARMY
MANEUVER CENTER OF EXCELLENCE (MCOE) RANGER COURSE ASSESSMENT
NARR/(U) PURPOSE OF THIS MESSAGE IS TO SEEK ARMY-WIDE SUPPORT OF
FEMALE OBSERVERS/ADVISORS TO PARTICIPATE IN THE MCOE RANGER COURSE
ASSESSMENT (DECISION REGARDING EXECUTION OF ASSESSMENT WILL BE MADE
IN JANUARY 2015).
1. (U) BACKGROUND: AS PART OF THE ARMY SOLDIER 2020 INITIATIVE TO
ENSURE THE BEST-QUALIFIED SOLDIERS HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SERVE IN
ANY POSITION WHERE THEY ARE CAPABLE OF PERFORMING TO STANDARD, THE
MCOE MAY CONDUCT A RANGER COURSE ASSESSMENT IN 3RD QTR FY15 (EXACT
DATES TBD).
1.A. (U) MCOE MAY CONDUCT A RANGER COURSE ASSESSMENT TO INFORM
FUTURE DECISION MAKING.
1.B. (U) FEMALE VOLUNTEERS WILL BE SELECTED TO SERVE AS
OBSERVERS/ADVISORS DURING THE RANGER COURSE ASSESSMENT (EXACT CLASS
TBP).
2. (U) ARMY COMMANDS (ACOMS), ARMY SERVICE COMPONENT COMMANDS
(ASCCS), AND DIRECT REPORTING UNITS (DRUS) WILL CONDUCT A RECRUITING
EFFORT TO IDENTIFY FEMALE VOLUNTEERS TO SERVE AS OBSERVERS/ADVISORS
FOR THE RANGER COURSE ASSESSMENT.
3. (U) FEMALE OBSERVERS/ADVISORS WILL ASSIST THE AIRBORNE AND RANGER
TRAINING BRIGADE (ARTB)CADRE IN OBSERVING ALL MAJOR BLOCKS OF
INSTRUCTION AND TRAINING DURING THIS ASSESSMENT. FEMALE
OBSERVERS/ADVISORS WILL NOT SERVE AS RANGER INSTRUCTORS OR TRAIN OR
EVALUATE STUDENTS.
3.A. (U) FEMALE OBSERVER/ADVISOR PREREQUISITES.
3.A.1. (U) - MUST BE A FEMALE SOLDIER OR OFFICER VOLUNTEER
3.A.2. (U) - MOS OR BRANCH IMMATERIAL
3.A.3. (U) - GRADE E6, E7, E8, W2, W3, O2, O3, OR O4
3.A.4. (U) - MEET HEIGHT AND WEIGHT STANDARDS
3.A.5. (U) - MUST HAVE A PHYSICAL PROFILE SERIAL SYSTEM NUMBER
(PULHES) OF 111121 OR RECEIVE A WAIVER FROM THE INFANTRY SCHOOL AND
HAVE NO PHYSICAL LIMITING PROFILE
3.A.6. (U) - MUST MEET STANDARDS OF MEDICAL FITNESS IAW CHAPTER 5, AR
40-501 (RANGER PHYSICAL)
3.B. (U) FEMALE OBSERVER/ADVISOR ADDITIONAL CONSIDERATIONS (NOT
REQUIREMENTS).
3.B.1. (U) FEMALE OBSERVER/ADVISOR VOLUNTEERS WILL BE EVALUATED ON
THEIR ABILITY TO PERFORM RANGER TASKS AND RANGER ASSESSMENT PHASE
REQUIREMENTS, INCLUDING: THE RANGER PHYSICAL ASSESSMENT (49 PUSH-UPS,
59 SIT-UPS, 5-MILE RUN IN 40 MINUTES, AND 6 CHIN-UPS); 12-MILE
FOOTMARCH IN 3 HOURS; THE COMBAT WATER SURVIVAL ASSESSMENT (CWSA),
AND LAND NAVIGATION. THE 12-MILE FOOTMARCH IS CONDUCTED IN THE ARMY
COMBAT UNIFORM, BOOTS, FIGHTING LOAD CARRIER (FLC), PATROL CAP, AND
RUCKSACK WEIGHING A MINIMUM OF 35 LBS (WITHOUT WATER) WHILE CARRYING
INDIVIDUAL WEAPON.
3.B.2. (U) FEMALE VOLUNTEERS WITH DRILL SERGEANT/ADVANCED INDIVIDUAL
TRAINING (AIT) PLATOON SERGEANT EXPERIENCE, COMBAT TRAINING CENTER
OBSERVER/CONTROLLER EXPERIENCE, AND THOSE WHO HAVE SUCCESSFULLY
COMPLETED PHYSICALLY DEMANDING FUNCTIONAL ARMY COURSES ARE HIGHLY
DESIRED.
3.C. (U) APPLICANT PACKETS WILL INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING:
3.C.1. (U) AN UPDATED CURRENT COPY OF THEIR OFFICER RECORD BRIEF
(ORB) OR ENLISTED RECORD BRIEF (ERB)
3.C.2. (U) COPIES OF LAST THREE OER/NCOER
3.C.3. (U) LETTER TO THE ARTB COMMANDER EXPRESSING WHY APPLICANT
WISHES TO SERVE AS AN ARTB OBSERVER/ADVISOR FOR THE ASSESSMENT.
LETTER MAY BE ONE TO TWO PARAGRAPHS AND NOT TO EXCEED ONE PAGE IN
LENGTH.
3.C.4. (U) DA FORM 705 (ARMY PHYSICAL FITNESS TEST SCORECARD)DATED
WITHIN SIX MONTHS OF SUBMISSION OF APPLICATION PACKET.
3.D. (U) FEMALE OBSERVER/ADVISOR SELECTION PROCESS
3.D.1. (U) THE ASSESSMENT WILL OCCUR OVER AN 8-DAY PERIOD (INCLUDES 2
TRAVEL DAYS).
3.D.2. (U) CANDIDATES WILL NOT BE DROPPED FROM THE ASSESSMENT EXCEPT
FOR INJURY OR BY SELF REMOVAL.
3.D.3. (U) CANDIDATES WILL BE ASSESSED ON THEIR ABILITY TO EXECUTE
RANGER TASKS AND RANGER ASSESSMENT PHASE REQUIREMENTS.
3.D.4. (U) UPON COMPLETION OF THE ASSESSMENT THE CANDIDATES WILL
REVIEW THEIR PERFORMANCE WITH SENIOR MEMBERS OF THE ARTB.
3.D.5. (U) ALL CANDIDATES WILL PROVIDE A WRITTEN EXIT AFTER ACTION
REPORT UPON COMPLETION OF THE ASSESSMENT.
3.D.6. (U) EXIT INTERVIEWS WILL BE CONDUCTED WITH ALL CANDIDATES.
3.E. (U) TIMELINE
3.E.1. (U) CANDIDATE PACKETS MUST BE SUBMITTED NLT 10 OCT 14.
3.E.2. (U) CANDIDATES SELECTED WILL BE NOTIFIED ON OR AROUND (O/A) 20
OCT 14.
3.E.3. (U) CANDIDATES WILL TRAVEL TO FORT BENNING O/A 10-18 NOV 14 ON
TEMPORARY DUTY (TDY).
3.E.4. (U) FEMALE SOLDIERS SELECTED AS OBSERVERS/ADVISORS WILL
TRAVEL TO FORT BENNING WITH FOLLOW-ON DUTY AT FORT BENNING, GA;
DAHLONEGA, GA; OR EGLIN AFB, FL. REPORT DATE MAY BE 5 JAN 15, WITH
TDY ENDING O/A 18 SEPT 15.
4. (U) ORDERS AUTHORIZATION AND FUNDING INFORMATION WILL BE
PUBLISHED IN A SUPPLEMENTAL MESSAGE.
5. (U) POINTS OF CONTACT (POCS).
5.A. (U) INITIAL REQUESTS FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION WILL BE SENT TO
USAIS (USARMY.BENNING.TRADOC.MBX.OCOIWEB@MAIL.MIL) OR BY VOICE
MESSAGE AT (706) 545-0458; DSN 835-0458
5.B. (U) INDIVIDUAL POCS (FOR PACKET SUBMISSION, FUNDING, AND
ORDERS)
WILL BE IDENTIFIED IN SUPPLEMENTAL MESSAGES.
6. (U) EXPIRATION DATE OF THIS MESSAGE IS 365 DAYS FROM ISSUANCE
DATE.
BT
#2045
SUBJ/ALARACT 221/2014 - FEMALE OBSERVERS/ADVISORS FOR THE UNITED
STATES ARMY MANEUVER CENTER OF EXCELLENCE (MCOE) RANGER COURSE
ASSESSMENT
THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN TRANSMITTED BY US ARMY INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY
AGENCY (USAITA) ON BEHALF OF HEADQUARTERS, US ARMY TRAINING AND
DOCTRINE COMMAND (TRADOC)
SUBJECT: FEMALE OBSERVERS/ADVISORS FOR THE UNITED STATES ARMY
MANEUVER CENTER OF EXCELLENCE (MCOE) RANGER COURSE ASSESSMENT
NARR/(U) PURPOSE OF THIS MESSAGE IS TO SEEK ARMY-WIDE SUPPORT OF
FEMALE OBSERVERS/ADVISORS TO PARTICIPATE IN THE MCOE RANGER COURSE
ASSESSMENT (DECISION REGARDING EXECUTION OF ASSESSMENT WILL BE MADE
IN JANUARY 2015).
1. (U) BACKGROUND: AS PART OF THE ARMY SOLDIER 2020 INITIATIVE TO
ENSURE THE BEST-QUALIFIED SOLDIERS HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SERVE IN
ANY POSITION WHERE THEY ARE CAPABLE OF PERFORMING TO STANDARD, THE
MCOE MAY CONDUCT A RANGER COURSE ASSESSMENT IN 3RD QTR FY15 (EXACT
DATES TBD).
1.A. (U) MCOE MAY CONDUCT A RANGER COURSE ASSESSMENT TO INFORM
FUTURE DECISION MAKING.
1.B. (U) FEMALE VOLUNTEERS WILL BE SELECTED TO SERVE AS
OBSERVERS/ADVISORS DURING THE RANGER COURSE ASSESSMENT (EXACT CLASS
TBP).
2. (U) ARMY COMMANDS (ACOMS), ARMY SERVICE COMPONENT COMMANDS
(ASCCS), AND DIRECT REPORTING UNITS (DRUS) WILL CONDUCT A RECRUITING
EFFORT TO IDENTIFY FEMALE VOLUNTEERS TO SERVE AS OBSERVERS/ADVISORS
FOR THE RANGER COURSE ASSESSMENT.
3. (U) FEMALE OBSERVERS/ADVISORS WILL ASSIST THE AIRBORNE AND RANGER
TRAINING BRIGADE (ARTB)CADRE IN OBSERVING ALL MAJOR BLOCKS OF
INSTRUCTION AND TRAINING DURING THIS ASSESSMENT. FEMALE
OBSERVERS/ADVISORS WILL NOT SERVE AS RANGER INSTRUCTORS OR TRAIN OR
EVALUATE STUDENTS.
3.A. (U) FEMALE OBSERVER/ADVISOR PREREQUISITES.
3.A.1. (U) - MUST BE A FEMALE SOLDIER OR OFFICER VOLUNTEER
3.A.2. (U) - MOS OR BRANCH IMMATERIAL
3.A.3. (U) - GRADE E6, E7, E8, W2, W3, O2, O3, OR O4
3.A.4. (U) - MEET HEIGHT AND WEIGHT STANDARDS
3.A.5. (U) - MUST HAVE A PHYSICAL PROFILE SERIAL SYSTEM NUMBER
(PULHES) OF 111121 OR RECEIVE A WAIVER FROM THE INFANTRY SCHOOL AND
HAVE NO PHYSICAL LIMITING PROFILE
3.A.6. (U) - MUST MEET STANDARDS OF MEDICAL FITNESS IAW CHAPTER 5, AR
40-501 (RANGER PHYSICAL)
3.B. (U) FEMALE OBSERVER/ADVISOR ADDITIONAL CONSIDERATIONS (NOT
REQUIREMENTS).
3.B.1. (U) FEMALE OBSERVER/ADVISOR VOLUNTEERS WILL BE EVALUATED ON
THEIR ABILITY TO PERFORM RANGER TASKS AND RANGER ASSESSMENT PHASE
REQUIREMENTS, INCLUDING: THE RANGER PHYSICAL ASSESSMENT (49 PUSH-UPS,
59 SIT-UPS, 5-MILE RUN IN 40 MINUTES, AND 6 CHIN-UPS); 12-MILE
FOOTMARCH IN 3 HOURS; THE COMBAT WATER SURVIVAL ASSESSMENT (CWSA),
AND LAND NAVIGATION. THE 12-MILE FOOTMARCH IS CONDUCTED IN THE ARMY
COMBAT UNIFORM, BOOTS, FIGHTING LOAD CARRIER (FLC), PATROL CAP, AND
RUCKSACK WEIGHING A MINIMUM OF 35 LBS (WITHOUT WATER) WHILE CARRYING
INDIVIDUAL WEAPON.
3.B.2. (U) FEMALE VOLUNTEERS WITH DRILL SERGEANT/ADVANCED INDIVIDUAL
TRAINING (AIT) PLATOON SERGEANT EXPERIENCE, COMBAT TRAINING CENTER
OBSERVER/CONTROLLER EXPERIENCE, AND THOSE WHO HAVE SUCCESSFULLY
COMPLETED PHYSICALLY DEMANDING FUNCTIONAL ARMY COURSES ARE HIGHLY
DESIRED.
3.C. (U) APPLICANT PACKETS WILL INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING:
3.C.1. (U) AN UPDATED CURRENT COPY OF THEIR OFFICER RECORD BRIEF
(ORB) OR ENLISTED RECORD BRIEF (ERB)
3.C.2. (U) COPIES OF LAST THREE OER/NCOER
3.C.3. (U) LETTER TO THE ARTB COMMANDER EXPRESSING WHY APPLICANT
WISHES TO SERVE AS AN ARTB OBSERVER/ADVISOR FOR THE ASSESSMENT.
LETTER MAY BE ONE TO TWO PARAGRAPHS AND NOT TO EXCEED ONE PAGE IN
LENGTH.
3.C.4. (U) DA FORM 705 (ARMY PHYSICAL FITNESS TEST SCORECARD)DATED
WITHIN SIX MONTHS OF SUBMISSION OF APPLICATION PACKET.
3.D. (U) FEMALE OBSERVER/ADVISOR SELECTION PROCESS
3.D.1. (U) THE ASSESSMENT WILL OCCUR OVER AN 8-DAY PERIOD (INCLUDES 2
TRAVEL DAYS).
3.D.2. (U) CANDIDATES WILL NOT BE DROPPED FROM THE ASSESSMENT EXCEPT
FOR INJURY OR BY SELF REMOVAL.
3.D.3. (U) CANDIDATES WILL BE ASSESSED ON THEIR ABILITY TO EXECUTE
RANGER TASKS AND RANGER ASSESSMENT PHASE REQUIREMENTS.
3.D.4. (U) UPON COMPLETION OF THE ASSESSMENT THE CANDIDATES WILL
REVIEW THEIR PERFORMANCE WITH SENIOR MEMBERS OF THE ARTB.
3.D.5. (U) ALL CANDIDATES WILL PROVIDE A WRITTEN EXIT AFTER ACTION
REPORT UPON COMPLETION OF THE ASSESSMENT.
3.D.6. (U) EXIT INTERVIEWS WILL BE CONDUCTED WITH ALL CANDIDATES.
3.E. (U) TIMELINE
3.E.1. (U) CANDIDATE PACKETS MUST BE SUBMITTED NLT 10 OCT 14.
3.E.2. (U) CANDIDATES SELECTED WILL BE NOTIFIED ON OR AROUND (O/A) 20
OCT 14.
3.E.3. (U) CANDIDATES WILL TRAVEL TO FORT BENNING O/A 10-18 NOV 14 ON
TEMPORARY DUTY (TDY).
3.E.4. (U) FEMALE SOLDIERS SELECTED AS OBSERVERS/ADVISORS WILL
TRAVEL TO FORT BENNING WITH FOLLOW-ON DUTY AT FORT BENNING, GA;
DAHLONEGA, GA; OR EGLIN AFB, FL. REPORT DATE MAY BE 5 JAN 15, WITH
TDY ENDING O/A 18 SEPT 15.
4. (U) ORDERS AUTHORIZATION AND FUNDING INFORMATION WILL BE
PUBLISHED IN A SUPPLEMENTAL MESSAGE.
5. (U) POINTS OF CONTACT (POCS).
5.A. (U) INITIAL REQUESTS FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION WILL BE SENT TO
USAIS (USARMY.BENNING.TRADOC.MBX.OCOIWEB@MAIL.MIL) OR BY VOICE
MESSAGE AT (706) 545-0458; DSN 835-0458
5.B. (U) INDIVIDUAL POCS (FOR PACKET SUBMISSION, FUNDING, AND
ORDERS)
WILL BE IDENTIFIED IN SUPPLEMENTAL MESSAGES.
6. (U) EXPIRATION DATE OF THIS MESSAGE IS 365 DAYS FROM ISSUANCE
DATE.
BT
#2045
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