Women in Combat Arms/ SOF Discussion

Ha ha.

The SEAL community is already losing it's mind over the most recent announcement.

If they for an instant didn't see this coming, they had on a blacked out mask and a hood on over their heads. :-"
 
I couldn't recall the amount of times people have asked me for a "quick" tracking course, or how to operate in the bush as a grunt. Sure I can give you the basics in a couple of hours, but that's like demonstrating to a baby that to walk/run/sprint all one needs to do is place one foot in front of another. There you go, now go and win a gold medal at the Olympics tomorrow!

Are you talking about the time that Teufel convinced you to fly to 29 Palms to train some grunts in combat tracking and you took a phantom shit in the CP and had to explain to the Battalion Commander that you deuced in the name of science and spoor aging?
 
Are you talking about the time that Teufel convinced you to fly to 29 Palms to train some grunts in combat tracking and you took a phantom shit in the CP and had to explain to the Battalion Commander that you deuced in the name of science and spoor aging?

Hahahahaha! Good times!
But no, that was just a refresher for already trained people.
 
Is it true that these women didn't take part in peering?

Was it in a comment thread somewhere (like FB)? There's always someone who claims to know someone on the inside of anything, and I happened to find one in a comment thread that claimed one female was an abject failure at land nav in mountain phase, but the RIs were told she was going to pass, regardless. I took it with a grain of salt.

I doubt the RIs are going to say anything about it until they're retired, if ever. So unless the media shines an impartial light on it, the general public won't ever know for certain. No need for rumor mongering in the meantime.
 
Is it true that these women didn't take part in peering?

It definitely wasn't true in Darby.
Was it in a comment thread somewhere (like FB)? There's always someone who claims to know someone on the inside of anything, and I happened to find one in a comment thread that claimed one female was an abject failure at land nav in mountain phase, but the RIs were told she was going to pass, regardless. I took it with a grain of salt.

I doubt the RIs are going to say anything about it until they're retired, if ever. So unless the media shines an impartial light on it, the general public won't ever know for certain. No need for rumor mongering in the meantime.

Like I said previously, my good friend was in their first iteration at Darby, they participated in peers.
 
Was it in a comment thread somewhere (like FB)? There's always someone who claims to know someone on the inside of anything, and I happened to find one in a comment thread that claimed one female was an abject failure at land nav in mountain phase, but the RIs were told she was going to pass, regardless. I took it with a grain of salt.

I doubt the RIs are going to say anything about it until they're retired, if ever. So unless the media shines an impartial light on it, the general public won't ever know for certain. No need for rumor mongering in the meantime.

Similar enough. Second hand. Friend's friend is an RI and mentioned that they weren't subjected to peering. I don't care enough to further propagate without firsthand knowledge.
 

There were never any plans, nor are there, for the President to attend their graduation.

Is it true that these women didn't take part in peering?

No. They all were a part of the Peer Evaluation Process throughout their entire tenure.

Similar enough. Second hand. Friend's friend is an RI and mentioned that they weren't subjected to peering. I don't care enough to further propagate without firsthand knowledge.

Mine is first hand info from the man himself, to me directly.
 
Here is a facebook response...

Ranger School officer combats rumors about how women passed in pointed Facebook post

Gentlemen,

I am not much for posting on social media, but feel that I should comment on the current situation at Ranger School. First and foremost the Ranger instructors are professional noncommissioned Officers and trained the Ranger students the same way they have since 1952. If you believe nothing else, you should have faith in your fellow Rangers to adhere to their beliefs and the Ranger Creed.

I have spent the last 18 months as the Ranger Training Brigade operations and training officer, and am now the RTB executive officer. I have been part of the process from start to finish and have watched the professionalism of the RIs in each phase. Bottom line; The RIs trained Ranger, period. I had the privilege of having RIs like Sgt. Firsts Class Grenier and Command Sgt. Maj. Purdy in Benning and Sgt. 1st Class Brimstin (now a retired command sergeant major) and Command Sgt. Maj. Edmunds in Mountains and Sgt. 1sts Class Hammond in Florida. Don’t really remember much after that, but I do remember their professionalism and what they taught me and I see the same thing today when I watch the current batch of instructors.

I would like to address a few of the rumors that have been floating around the Internet and to inject fact into the conversation.

1. The female students watched a Ranger Class before they went through the course — This is false. The females did not watch a course prior to coming through. I do find this funny, though. We have the Merrill’s Platoon members who perform operational forces [Editor’s note: Meaning they ambush Ranger students in training sessions] and support duties for RTB and then they end up going through training. Do they get an unfair advantage? NO. The school is hard, and it sucks. You can know the answers, but you still have to perform as evident by the pass rate of the Merrill’s Platoon members.

2. The females were afforded unprecedented recycle opportunities – The women were not afforded any advantage on recycles. They went through Darby Phase, recycled and were Darby inserts. Upon a second failure they were offered a Day 1 recycle. This means they started Day 1 and had to complete the Ranger Assessment Phase a second time. There is no advantage to this. Would any of you volunteered to go through RAP week twice and take a Day 1 recycle? Most people would not as evident by the several men who were also offered a Day 1, but declined. The Day 1 recycle precedent has been in place for many years, and is nothing new. Unless you have been part of the RTB leadership… and have sat on the academic boards you would not know how common it actually is.

3. Command Sgt. Maj. Arnold is the command sergeant major of the RTB and is the most professional NCO I have worked with in 26 years. At no time did he pass anyone on a patrol. Nor did he pressure anyone to pass anyone (Male or female). As with any good NCO, he was out in the field with his RIs. He has walked patrols before the females were here and will walk patrols after. If he wasn’t then there would be complaints that he was the type of NCO who sat in his office and did nothing. He was setting the standard for his subordinate leaders, but had no grading precedent on the patrol.

4. There have been all kinds of accusations that the class got more sleep less physical training and were coddled – That simply did not happen. Just watch the videos that were taken of the Darby Queen [obstacle course]. If you honestly think an RI was going to take it easy on this class, you are mistaken.

5. Packing List – There were no changes to the packing list except for the addition of a few items. There were no additional supplements or vitamins. There was no reduction in weight. It was the same except for the few female-specific items that the women carried.

6. The commanding general [Editor’s note: Miller] walked a patrol in each phase of Class 8-15. It was his 30th anniversary of attending Ranger School. He intentionally did not walk a patrol that a female was being graded on to ensure there was no conflict of interest. The infantry commandant [Editor’s note: Rainey for most of the female soldiers’ time at Ranger School] has walked patrols and so has the CG. This is not unprecedented.

7. Observer/Advisors – This subject has caused a lot of consternation. They are non-grading cadre [of women] who were assigned to the RTB to help. They had no authority and they worked for the chain of command.

8. The ridiculous rumor that President Obama was coming to this graduation and that RIs were told to pass them before they even started Florida is absolutely false. He isn’t/wasn’t coming to graduation. [Editor’s note: A White House official confirmed that is accurate.]

9. The final comment I will say is this. No matter what we at Ranger School say the non-believers will still be non-believers. We could have invited each of you to guest walk the entire course, and you would still not believe, we could have video recorded every patrol and you would still say that we “gave” it away. Nothing we say will change your opinion. I and the rest of our cadre are proud of the conduct of our soldiers, NCOs and officers, they took the mission assigned and performed to the Ranger Standard. Rangers Lead the Way!!!!!
 
I saw that FB post, no idea if it's legit or not but sounds very credible. I found the version you posted a little funny @Florida173 as someone went in and spelled out the acronyms - which I'm sure is helpful for the non-Army folks. However, they got more than a few things wrong when they did so like fucking up the ranks and making OPFOR into 'operational forces' (it's opposition force).

One of the dangers I guess in any social media, the more something is shared around the more it can be modified.
 
I submitted my package for Ranger school three times when I was still in the Infantry as an NCO over a period of years. I was bumped from the list by staff in HQ (officers) each time. My PT was excellent throughout and I was ready. Our unit was last to know and never placed priority for slots. That was then, this is now... I'm not a "Ranger" nor was I "Ranger tabbed" my hat is off to those that had the opportunity and passed. One of my regrets in the military not being able to get to that leadership school. Bottom line is; I'm not in a position to criticize these people or pass judgement. I can assure you at 54 there's no way my old fat azz could do what those females did. It's a bitter pill to swallow (ego sucks) but congratulations to both of them, they were 10% of the original group that started. That's a 10% roughly; 2 out of 19 who trained hard for months in advance. That attrition rate is much higher than the males. Same, reduced, modified or otherwise the standards I wouldn't have passed. I've heard some folks that are not in that club run their mouths giving all types of opinions. If your not in the club I don't think your opinion counts for much. As a basic line grunt and small unit leader I paid my dues in the Infantry battalion the old fashion way. I don't trust the higher command or officers but I do trust those SNCOs on the ground and their integrity. I've given this a lot of thought...the world is changing rapidly, I gotta evolve and adapt or it eats you up. There are some things we have no control over nor do we know all the facts. We gotta have faith and trust, which is very hard in this modern society but it's what gives us mental stability and solid foundation.

People are getting wrapped around the axle about physical standards and abilities. Women & men through modern training methods and advancement of physical human development are doing amazing things. Amazing things, way beyond what I thought was attainable when I was still in the game...my past life ;). My old unit in LE just had our first female pass our basic SWAT school in twenty years. She now moves on to phase 2 and 3 in the process. She can do more pull ups (27 BTW) shoot as good as any man or better and run faster, and in fact she fireman carried men in full gear during training and it was recorded. I have never ever seen anything like it, ever! I was floored and amazed. Physical ability and performance is not the issue or the matter with regard to integration of females into the Infantry. The factors in my opinion go way beyond that simple answer. Mother nature and biology as well as sociology are entirely different matters. But I'm sure we will soon see females in the infantry battalion in the Army. Whether we like it or not...

Disclaimer
No insult or sarcasm is intended by this post.

Respectfully
 
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Of course if you consider the 160 or so women that attempted to be rangers, the 10% becomes more like 1.25%
 
Good for these two women, and any other that earn their tab. They set the bar high for their fellow service members male and female. I am proud that we have such women here in the U.S., and in our military.
 
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