Florida173, number's higher than that.
I'd have to look back (and honestly don't care to) but it's >240 actually went to RPOOF or whatever the fuck they're calling the NG Pre-Ranger now. Yes, I jest. No, they really did name it something dumb. Which means the grad rate is lower than that 1%...
Trying to throw students prior to PRC into the mix isn't honest nor fair, nor is bothering with the whole "hand selected" bullshit. Every Ranger student is hand selected. Your entire COC is fucking eyeballing you hardcore because in the regular army it's a fucking big deal for school.
Everyone who's been to school knows that it's the ones to your left and right that matter, and contribute heavily to your grade. I know that fact dearly.
There's always going to be blusterfucks that rage on about how their class was the last hard class... GUESS WHAT! RANGER SCHOOL CHANGES! I know perfectly well how it changes, just year to year. Class 5-99? Zero week bullshit and Ranger Stakes, Buddy run in boots and BDU's with equipment and rifle. Class 5-00, Ranger Stakes was missing, no zero week, running shoes for the buddy run. Next thing rabble rabble "they look well fed, I looked like an Auschwitz survivor when I graduated" Physiological difference. Bet you a dollar there's not a whole lotta chest meat left on those women. Means nothing, the majority of their changes are going to be under the uniform and you're an idiot that doesn't know or hasn't been around women to know where things are different.
I was Infantry, and in Regiment. I didn't interact with many women in the military outside of classmates at PLDC, and 2 other instances.
First significant interaction? Female medic that showed up as requested support from a medical unit on post when we needed augmentation for administrative coverage of BN level training. She showed up with an M5 with LUNCH in it, no gear. Tried to get me in trouble when I yoinked her HMMWV ambulance with my Bn Surgeon's orders (and him riding shotty) because she didn't have the kit to go downrange to get some guys that were going into heat stroke during a live fire. She couldn't even fuckin drive the thing right anyway, so needless to say my impression of women in the military was bleh.
Next experience, PLDC. Drama Llama's abounded, baw baw its cold baw baw can you get my land nav points for me baw baw i don't know how to do this basic nco stuff even though they're directly teaching it to us im tired can we stop for a minute ugh i can't go on. Once again, my impression meter was firmly down near "Empty" regarding women in the military.
Last experience, Rear-D assigned as the motor pool NCOIC for the rigs we had left. Had to work with one of the incumbent maintenance units on the base. 180 change there, their 1sg basically assigned one of his soldiers specifically to us as our solution provider. She was fantastic at her job and while you had the classic joke of "Give a grunt 2 ball bearings, he'll break one and lose the other" well she'd do the exact opposite. She could fix a ball bearing perfectly and fabricate or source another without skipping a beat. She did a great job, and all I did was hand her wrenches or help draw tools...which she honestly didn't even need, but it meant that she'd get 2 of our unit's raggity ass vehicles fixed in a day instead of just one... and my job was to get them all up and running and servicable, with no tools or equipment to do so. Therefore, fuck yes I'm handing wrenches over to the one that knows how to fix it.
So 1 stellar, about 10 mediocre at best, and 1 absolute turd that is lucky to be still breathing after hazarding Rangers under my wing so to speak. Sounds about like a bell curve to me.
I think that women in the military as a whole pretty much just need to get over their sex. Just as much as men do. You're going to have to shit and piss alongside the troops. We didn't have supplies in AFG to make a fancy wancy shower or shitter that gave privacy. You work with it through giving no fucks and being happy you've got a drum to shit in with a nailed down toilet seat, and that you at least have a shower head over a pallett running off a tank fed by ditch water. You're sleeping with the squad and you're changing with the squad. These are things that they will HAVE to contend with, not change, but work with/around, if they want to be Infantry or the like. Having to put up a fucking sheet in a PB so that the girlies can shit in privacy is a pure TRADOC stupidity thing (which is where Ranger School lies) and it's something you ain't gonna be doing for real.... I guess chalk it up to it being one of the many things that you won't be doing in combat. Thankfully, having been in Regiment, that list was so short I can't even remember any techniques or procedures that we totally just said NOPE that's a training only thing we're gonna do it this way.
Are there going to be many women that will go to RS? Not really. We already saw it with a sub-300 people being willing to go. There may have been pre-screening IE don't fucking even try if you can't score a 280 on the mens side of the scale for your age. Who knows, I've got an outie and I'm OUT of the army, so with the combination of the two, my knowledge of the pre-screening criteria is sorely lacking.
Will there be many that pass? I think that the numbers, if continued, will most likely remain about the same.
What I do think is that maybe, JUST MAYBE, and this is actually a HUGE thing.... these hard chargers, that can and do meet the standard? They can punch their fellow female troops square in the babymaker when they try to lean on their ovaries as an excuse, or drag their labia in the dirt during a training event, to get them to meet the standard as expected of a SOLDIER. Something that is rather hard for a male soldier to do, since Muh Sexism Muh IG if you light into them as you would any other (male) private that's below the standard by choice. So I say, even if they never go into "right proper combat arms" it's a good thing.
I don't think that if/when combat arms fully opens up, there's going to be a huge mad dash for female infantrymen. I also don't think there's going to be a huge change like everyone's rabbling about OMG LOTSAMONEY TO INTEGRATE.... erm, we had individual sleeping quarters with a shared shitter and kitchenette at Batt when I left. The only thing that would be done? Women would have to room together, which would end up most likely sucking for both of them because they'd be in different squads/platoons which means 2 different COC's inspecting the common area and rooms. So they'd actually have it just as hard as some of the guys who have to deal with that now.
Woods stuff? Chances are they wouldn't give a fuck about needing a shield for "their privacy" when using the slit trench.
Changing in the field? How often are you changing uniforms in the woods? It's socks and Tshirts... and she'll have a sports bra on, which is a super-bikini... oh noes, us Mens see less skin than we would at a beach, for a half second. Once again, pretty sure there wouldn't be girly girls joining to wear crossed rifles.
They're all gonna get pregnant and fuck with morale? erm, that's a command handled, individual discipline issue.
Rape? Go ahead and TRY to rape the gGrunt in 2nd squad when you're in first squad, or in 3rd platoon when you're in first. See what the fuck happens when you TRY. You didn't just roll up in other people's AO's without damn good reason as it was, otherwise you'd get balled up. She'd just need to yell FIRST SQUAD and you'd be lucky to not see a modern day Decimation happen when they came upon their teammate being assaulted.
Rude commentary and masculine bravado currently displayed as we all know? It can go away, anyway. While it's a bit of a brotherhood thing, it generally doesn't add to mission capability although it does add humor to a shit situation when you're rigging up for the 8th time today and someone (I have no idea who would do this :-") decides to let the guys en-masse have a laugh at the Bn XO's expense by rigging up with his fly open enough for testicules to hang free. SQUAT HOLD... I would see the diversity of pornography being passed around increase since tastes vary anyway.
Extremely blunt, but that's what I see. I don't see the classic "protect the girl" mentality because it's not like we'd do anything DIFFERENT. Fuck man, I mean, come on. We already have, as just one example, stellar studs taking rounds then hucking back grenades, losing hands and still continuing to control the situation while TQ'ing and bandaging themselves... How can you get more intense than that? If someone loses their shit just because the gGrunt's team or squad is pinned down vs ANY OTHER TEAM/SQUAD/PLATOON? They shouldn't be in fucking charge.
The only thing that I can see as a possible issue.... Ranger school is a pinnacle event. You train up to that..... where Regiment as an example, is being in the "Triple Nickle" club. Performance on demand at any time. It remains yet to be seen if there are women in the military or who join in the future that are capable of not just training up to, but maintaining that capability for years on end. Can't know unless you try. Give them the chance.
Discussion welcome on points raised, different perspectives may bring light. Especially welcome is past/current female servicemember perspective to provide contrast to how I see things.
Oh, and Lindy? I would. The Apache pilot? If I was her Warrant as an example, I would feel comfort in that she'd be able to move on foot with some semblance of sense if we had to E&E. The MP? I would never be an MP anyway. Their leadership qualities are going to be enhanced by having attended, EVEN IF THEY HAD NEVER GRADUATED. Every one of the women who participated in this process, pass or fail, has gone back to their unit with something learned. Even if it's just a healthy dose of humility and enhanced respect for those who have gone and succeeded.
I'd have to look back (and honestly don't care to) but it's >240 actually went to RPOOF or whatever the fuck they're calling the NG Pre-Ranger now. Yes, I jest. No, they really did name it something dumb. Which means the grad rate is lower than that 1%...
Trying to throw students prior to PRC into the mix isn't honest nor fair, nor is bothering with the whole "hand selected" bullshit. Every Ranger student is hand selected. Your entire COC is fucking eyeballing you hardcore because in the regular army it's a fucking big deal for school.
Everyone who's been to school knows that it's the ones to your left and right that matter, and contribute heavily to your grade. I know that fact dearly.
There's always going to be blusterfucks that rage on about how their class was the last hard class... GUESS WHAT! RANGER SCHOOL CHANGES! I know perfectly well how it changes, just year to year. Class 5-99? Zero week bullshit and Ranger Stakes, Buddy run in boots and BDU's with equipment and rifle. Class 5-00, Ranger Stakes was missing, no zero week, running shoes for the buddy run. Next thing rabble rabble "they look well fed, I looked like an Auschwitz survivor when I graduated" Physiological difference. Bet you a dollar there's not a whole lotta chest meat left on those women. Means nothing, the majority of their changes are going to be under the uniform and you're an idiot that doesn't know or hasn't been around women to know where things are different.
I was Infantry, and in Regiment. I didn't interact with many women in the military outside of classmates at PLDC, and 2 other instances.
First significant interaction? Female medic that showed up as requested support from a medical unit on post when we needed augmentation for administrative coverage of BN level training. She showed up with an M5 with LUNCH in it, no gear. Tried to get me in trouble when I yoinked her HMMWV ambulance with my Bn Surgeon's orders (and him riding shotty) because she didn't have the kit to go downrange to get some guys that were going into heat stroke during a live fire. She couldn't even fuckin drive the thing right anyway, so needless to say my impression of women in the military was bleh.
Next experience, PLDC. Drama Llama's abounded, baw baw its cold baw baw can you get my land nav points for me baw baw i don't know how to do this basic nco stuff even though they're directly teaching it to us im tired can we stop for a minute ugh i can't go on. Once again, my impression meter was firmly down near "Empty" regarding women in the military.
Last experience, Rear-D assigned as the motor pool NCOIC for the rigs we had left. Had to work with one of the incumbent maintenance units on the base. 180 change there, their 1sg basically assigned one of his soldiers specifically to us as our solution provider. She was fantastic at her job and while you had the classic joke of "Give a grunt 2 ball bearings, he'll break one and lose the other" well she'd do the exact opposite. She could fix a ball bearing perfectly and fabricate or source another without skipping a beat. She did a great job, and all I did was hand her wrenches or help draw tools...which she honestly didn't even need, but it meant that she'd get 2 of our unit's raggity ass vehicles fixed in a day instead of just one... and my job was to get them all up and running and servicable, with no tools or equipment to do so. Therefore, fuck yes I'm handing wrenches over to the one that knows how to fix it.
So 1 stellar, about 10 mediocre at best, and 1 absolute turd that is lucky to be still breathing after hazarding Rangers under my wing so to speak. Sounds about like a bell curve to me.
I think that women in the military as a whole pretty much just need to get over their sex. Just as much as men do. You're going to have to shit and piss alongside the troops. We didn't have supplies in AFG to make a fancy wancy shower or shitter that gave privacy. You work with it through giving no fucks and being happy you've got a drum to shit in with a nailed down toilet seat, and that you at least have a shower head over a pallett running off a tank fed by ditch water. You're sleeping with the squad and you're changing with the squad. These are things that they will HAVE to contend with, not change, but work with/around, if they want to be Infantry or the like. Having to put up a fucking sheet in a PB so that the girlies can shit in privacy is a pure TRADOC stupidity thing (which is where Ranger School lies) and it's something you ain't gonna be doing for real.... I guess chalk it up to it being one of the many things that you won't be doing in combat. Thankfully, having been in Regiment, that list was so short I can't even remember any techniques or procedures that we totally just said NOPE that's a training only thing we're gonna do it this way.
Are there going to be many women that will go to RS? Not really. We already saw it with a sub-300 people being willing to go. There may have been pre-screening IE don't fucking even try if you can't score a 280 on the mens side of the scale for your age. Who knows, I've got an outie and I'm OUT of the army, so with the combination of the two, my knowledge of the pre-screening criteria is sorely lacking.
Will there be many that pass? I think that the numbers, if continued, will most likely remain about the same.
What I do think is that maybe, JUST MAYBE, and this is actually a HUGE thing.... these hard chargers, that can and do meet the standard? They can punch their fellow female troops square in the babymaker when they try to lean on their ovaries as an excuse, or drag their labia in the dirt during a training event, to get them to meet the standard as expected of a SOLDIER. Something that is rather hard for a male soldier to do, since Muh Sexism Muh IG if you light into them as you would any other (male) private that's below the standard by choice. So I say, even if they never go into "right proper combat arms" it's a good thing.
I don't think that if/when combat arms fully opens up, there's going to be a huge mad dash for female infantrymen. I also don't think there's going to be a huge change like everyone's rabbling about OMG LOTSAMONEY TO INTEGRATE.... erm, we had individual sleeping quarters with a shared shitter and kitchenette at Batt when I left. The only thing that would be done? Women would have to room together, which would end up most likely sucking for both of them because they'd be in different squads/platoons which means 2 different COC's inspecting the common area and rooms. So they'd actually have it just as hard as some of the guys who have to deal with that now.
Woods stuff? Chances are they wouldn't give a fuck about needing a shield for "their privacy" when using the slit trench.
Changing in the field? How often are you changing uniforms in the woods? It's socks and Tshirts... and she'll have a sports bra on, which is a super-bikini... oh noes, us Mens see less skin than we would at a beach, for a half second. Once again, pretty sure there wouldn't be girly girls joining to wear crossed rifles.
They're all gonna get pregnant and fuck with morale? erm, that's a command handled, individual discipline issue.
Rape? Go ahead and TRY to rape the gGrunt in 2nd squad when you're in first squad, or in 3rd platoon when you're in first. See what the fuck happens when you TRY. You didn't just roll up in other people's AO's without damn good reason as it was, otherwise you'd get balled up. She'd just need to yell FIRST SQUAD and you'd be lucky to not see a modern day Decimation happen when they came upon their teammate being assaulted.
Rude commentary and masculine bravado currently displayed as we all know? It can go away, anyway. While it's a bit of a brotherhood thing, it generally doesn't add to mission capability although it does add humor to a shit situation when you're rigging up for the 8th time today and someone (I have no idea who would do this :-") decides to let the guys en-masse have a laugh at the Bn XO's expense by rigging up with his fly open enough for testicules to hang free. SQUAT HOLD... I would see the diversity of pornography being passed around increase since tastes vary anyway.
Extremely blunt, but that's what I see. I don't see the classic "protect the girl" mentality because it's not like we'd do anything DIFFERENT. Fuck man, I mean, come on. We already have, as just one example, stellar studs taking rounds then hucking back grenades, losing hands and still continuing to control the situation while TQ'ing and bandaging themselves... How can you get more intense than that? If someone loses their shit just because the gGrunt's team or squad is pinned down vs ANY OTHER TEAM/SQUAD/PLATOON? They shouldn't be in fucking charge.
The only thing that I can see as a possible issue.... Ranger school is a pinnacle event. You train up to that..... where Regiment as an example, is being in the "Triple Nickle" club. Performance on demand at any time. It remains yet to be seen if there are women in the military or who join in the future that are capable of not just training up to, but maintaining that capability for years on end. Can't know unless you try. Give them the chance.
Discussion welcome on points raised, different perspectives may bring light. Especially welcome is past/current female servicemember perspective to provide contrast to how I see things.
Oh, and Lindy? I would. The Apache pilot? If I was her Warrant as an example, I would feel comfort in that she'd be able to move on foot with some semblance of sense if we had to E&E. The MP? I would never be an MP anyway. Their leadership qualities are going to be enhanced by having attended, EVEN IF THEY HAD NEVER GRADUATED. Every one of the women who participated in this process, pass or fail, has gone back to their unit with something learned. Even if it's just a healthy dose of humility and enhanced respect for those who have gone and succeeded.
Last edited:
