Women in Combat Arms/ SOF Discussion

[Kraut783]

"An important thing to remember is, these are volunteers. Special Forces is something soldiers volunteer for,” Maj. Faulkenberry said."

Yeah, cause no one volunteers for the Army

 

[Marine0311]

4 months plus. F/T away from their units.

Thank you.

 

[Etype]

As if this was any surprise......



Full Story

I'm interested to see/hear about this!

Two things I learned in selection-
- During team week, I learned I could feel pain.
- During the trek, I learned that my feet weren't bulletproof.

 

[TLDR20]

I'm interested to see/hear about this!

Two things I learned in selection-
- During team week, I learned I could feel pain.
- During the trek, I learned that my feet weren't bulletproof.

I learned the same thing about my shoulders. My feet were hard but my shoulders hurt worse than anything I can remember.

 

[AWP]

The Marine Corps released its new PFT, CFT, and body composition program.

Let's go to the articles:

Marine Corps Makes Biggest Changes To Fitness Standards In 40 Years

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/sto...s-need-know-corps-new-fitness-rules/86582012/

"The new PFT and CFT standards raise the bar on physical fitness for all Marines," said Maj. Gen. James Lukeman, commanding general of Training and Education Command.

Brian McGuire, deputy of fitness branch for TECOM’s standards division, called the flexed-arm hang an "inadequate test of upper body strength," adding that the pullup is preferred because it requires an individual to overcome his entire body weight, while a pushup requires he overcome only 70 to 80 percent. So why include pushups at all?

McGuire said it was because the Marine Corps didn't "want to create a manpower problem by having some female Marines failing."

Straight from the Marines
CHANGES TO THE PHYSICAL FITNESS TEST (PFT), COMBAT FITNESS TEST (CFT), AND BODY COMPOSITION PROGRAM (BCP) > The Official United States Marine Corps Public Website > Marines.mil - Messages

4. Other changes to BCP include modifying the maximum allowable weight limits for female Marines

Maybe this is good for the Corps, I really don't know, but there's no way any of this is equal for men and women. They "raised the bar" and then changed the test to avoid failing too many women?

 

[Ranger Psych]

Thing is, you do pullups first.... fail to achieve reps, go do pushups. Double that up with that you can only get what, 70% of max if you go to the pushup reps? It means that either they train the fuck up or they can pass, but they ain't maxing for being able to hold onto something for a little bit.

 

[AWP]

Thing is, you do pullups first.... fail to achieve reps, go do pushups. Double that up with that you can only get what, 70% of max if you go to the pushup reps? It means that either they train the fuck up or they can pass, but they ain't maxing for being able to hold onto something for a little bit.

I agree, but they still changed the test and then admitted it was done to benefit female Marines. They didn't include pushups for any other reason. One of the main themes in this thread is about the lowering of standards to accommodate women. Leadership has stated time and time again it would not lower standards for women. When the rubber meets the road the Marines and Army have both lowered their standards and/ or given women opportunities unavailable to men.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Better explained here:

11 things Marines need to know about the new PFT, CFT and body composition rules

 

[AWP]

Better explained here:

11 things Marines need to know about the new PFT, CFT and body composition rules

That was in my post, the URL didn't display in a friendly manner.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

Oops - missed that @Freefalling

To add: I was distracted by the part of the story that you bolded above.

In fact I am still distracted by the part of the story that you bolded above....

Brian McGuire, deputy of fitness branch for TECOM’s standards division, called the flexed-arm hang an "inadequate test of upper body strength," adding that the pullup is preferred because it requires an individual to overcome his entire body weight, while a pushup requires he overcome only 70 to 80 percent. So why include pushups at all?

McGuire said it was because the Marine Corps didn't "want to create a manpower problem by having some female Marines failing."

“This is a very big change in fitness testing," he said. "One of the key principles is to ensure a greater distinction between Marines at different fitness levels. ...While it incentivizes pullups, if the individual cannot do a pullup, the individual doesn’t fail.”

 

[AWP]

Oops - missed that @Freefalling

No worries. Marines and reading: a love-hate relationship since Tun Tavern.

 

[ThunderHorse]

I'm pretty sure over time it wouldn't matter, I've never seen Marine Recruiters deal with the same amount of manpower fills that the Army had to when I was in high school.

 

[ThunderHorse]

SMA: Army needs female soldiers to step up for combat jobs

My opinion is if they don't want to lateral transfer, we don't need them. Officers and NCOs should want to be in the job they're in, and then want to lead. Otherwise you end up with a PFC that has stripes or is just existing as an officer and they are dead weight.

 

[reed11b]

SMA: Army needs female soldiers to step up for combat jobs

My opinion is if they don't want to lateral transfer, we don't need them. Officers and NCOs should want to be in the job they're in, and then want to lead. Otherwise you end up with a PFC that has stripes or is just existing as an officer and they are dead weight.

Did I just find myself in agreement with ThunderHorse? What sign of the apocalypse is that?
Reed

 

[Jay_Pew]

SMA: Army needs female soldiers to step up for combat jobs

My opinion is if they don't want to lateral transfer, we don't need them. Officers and NCOs should want to be in the job they're in, and then want to lead. Otherwise you end up with a PFC that has stripes or is just existing as an officer and they are dead weight.

"You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink."

Pretty much sums up what is going on here. The opportunity is there for any woman in the service that wants to take that route, but much like internal polling among troops showed, not many woman where interested in the first place.

Few Army women want combat jobs, survey finds

 

[x SF med]

Most women in the military did not joint to become Combat Arms, nor have they a desire to lat move to Combat Arms... it's a politically moltivated agenda, to show inclusiveness if it works and show gender bias if it doesn't. It is a lose-lose proposition, always has been, always will be.

If you meet the standards for the job, have at it. I you fail to meet the standards, thanks for playing, there are no nice parting gifts, no bonus points, no waivers... back to the needs of mother green in an area in which you do qualify.

 

[Gunz]

The survey doesn't surprise me. When I think of the weight and gear we rucked through jungles and paddies and up and down hills, I can't imagine most women wanting to do that. And maybe it's a good thing, it'll mean those who go for it will be the ones who really want it.

 

[CDG]

The survey doesn't surprise me. When I think of the weight and gear we rucked through jungles and paddies and up and down hills, I can't imagine most women wanting to do that. And maybe it's a good thing, it'll mean those who go for it will be the ones who really want it.

It's the same story as it is for dudes. People want to do the cool stuff. Using my own careerfield as an example, everybody thinks it would be awesome to be on a mountainside saying "Cleared Hot". It's less awesome to be land naving alone at night through the Florida vegetation on 2 hours sleep in the last 72 hours. Similar stories for every combat arms/SOF job.

 

[AWP]

It's the same story as it is for dudes. People want to do the cool stuff. Using my own careerfield as an example, everybody thinks it would be awesome to be on a mountainside saying "Cleared Hot". It's less awesome to be land naving alone at night through the Florida vegetation on 2 hours sleep in the last 72 hours. Similar stories for every combat arms/SOF job.

Everyone thinks they are Darth material until the pool/ land nav course/ surf zone/ PT test....

 

[Centermass]

Everyone wants to be tough shit until it's time to do tough shit.........