158 Gr .38 Sp. +P SWCHP Buffalo Bore Ammo

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dusty

Guest
I just ordered a box for my little Smitty 442 pocket carry snubby.
Anybody shot any? (Or am I the only cat who owns a .38):rolleyes:
 
A

arizonaguide

Guest
I've got one like this, and I really like it.
442small.jpg

Fits my little monkey hand like a glove!

I've been hearing good things about those 158 Buffalo Bore's.
I've got the little Speer 135gr +PJHP's in mine for now.
Finally found a small OWB Serpa retention holster I like.
Still working on picking out a IWB for very concealed carry.
 
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arizonaguide

Guest
For the reloaders in the group. We use to load 148 gr hollow base WC inverted and hot. (+P) for our boot guns. A alternative. Also Speer Gold dot is a good round.

Yup, that's what I've got is the Speer Gold dot "short barrels", as I understand they are designed to expand correctly at the lower volocities of the short j-frame barrels.
 
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arizonaguide

Guest
This stuff I bought supposedly expands at about 800 fps.
That sounds about right. From what I understand that's about what we get out of that shorter barrel, even if a higher number is printed on the ammo. Only real way to tell is chrono it, I guess. Check out this Speer Gold Dot "short barrel" though, I'm reading good things...although that Buffalo Bore is getting good reports also! I think you're good with it.
:)
 
D

dusty

Guest
That sounds about right. From what I understand that's about what we get out of that shorter barrel, even if a higher number is printed on the ammo. Only real way to tell is chrono it, I guess. Check out this Speer Gold Dot "short barrel" though, I'm reading good things...although that Buffalo Bore is getting good reports also! I think you're good with it.
:)

Thanks for the idea, bro. I'll get a box of the Speer and do a chrony and bleach bottle paraffin test.
 
8

8'Duece

Guest
I've been loadin the .38 Special with Corbon DPX 110 grain +P.

It's got a helluva FPS out of a short barrel, but I'm not sure of the actual kinetic energy it will deliver. I'll have to chrony them sometime to see.
 
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arizonaguide

Guest
Corbon!!!

That seems to be a good choice also. Can't go wrong with Corbon DPX's...even their standard (non +p) are pretty HOT!

That's similar to the other ammo I purchased, which was the Hornady 110gr. FTX.
They state a muzzle volocity of 1175 FPS which puts it very much in the same class as a 115gr. 9mm round (energy).

It's a hollowpoint with a small polymer ball in the tip, which is designed to allow penetration through clothing, yet have good controlled expansion (so they say).

I feel pretty confident that the .38 (combined with the new alarm and the dog) has enough fight to get me to the 12ga 00 in the closet (where the wife then gets handed the .38)! And, it should be fine for CCW, until I can get that tiny KAHR .45 squared away to take it's place.
}:-)

I'm also very happy with the "natural point" that little j-frame has, and the ease of concealment with Arizona clothes (shorts/t-shirt)! It just all-around fits well, especially with the little serpa holster.

That reminds me...I've got to get the wife practicing with the speedloaders (yes, with snap-caps!)
:cool:
 
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8'Duece

Guest
Arizonaguide,

I used to purchase Corbon ammunition online for about $19.95 for a box of 20 rounds of DPX and Powerball, regardless of caliber. Now it's more than doubled since 2003. $32.95-$36.95 :p
 
D

dusty

Guest
The Buffalo Bore 158 gr. cost $36. total, with the NRA round-up, UPS ground (only method available), and the $3. (special handling fee).

What the fuck is a "special handling fee", BTW? This ain't DU we're dealing with here.

Anyway, it's like a buck eighty a round!

I DAYUM sure won't practice with this shit, but I might be able to pawn it if times get real hard.
 
A

arizonaguide

Guest
No Kidding!!! I can't even find Corbon or Buffalo Bore anywhere in town.
Speer is impossible to find. I was lucky to get the last box at my Gunshop.
As a second choice I had to settle for the Hornady's because of the shortages...and they were $29 at the time. Hopefully that's gotten better since I last searched.
:doh:

I'll be looking again after I get back to working and get some more play money pulled together. Hopefully it won't all be banned by then!
I don't even have a .22 yet, since I left Alaska (next on the list) but I'm stocking up on .22 ammo when I find them on sale!

I don't reload, but I've been thinking about getting a shotgun relaoding setup...as that's fairly simple/inexpensive (used to do it when I was a kid), and that 12ga can be very versatile.
:cool:
 
D

dusty

Guest
I've always bought my .308 and .45 ACP from Midway, but they're out of all kinds of shit-just like everybody else. Something smells fishy about this ammo shortage.

I heard a Motherfuckin' Shithead Nothin' but Communist newscaster say something like "Gun sales should be brisk for the next several months regardless of new gun regulations."

I don't like it.

On edit, I found the whole story from which the above paraphrase was quoted:
http://adage.com/article?article_id=135092

NEW YORK (AdAge.com) -- The economy might be tanking, but firearm sales are going great guns.

Despite the weakest holiday season on record, outdoor-products retailer Cabela's turned in strong fourth-quarter sales, largely as a result of an increase in firearm and ammunition sales. Smith & Wesson is reporting pistol sales up 40%, and Sturm, Ruger & Co. reported an 81% increase in firearm revenue.

Cabela's: Retailer turned in strong fourth-quarter results thanks to firearm sales.
In November, on the heels of Barack Obama's election, background checks for firearm sales jumped 42% to a record 1.5 million. But that pace has not abated, with a 24% rise in background checks in December, a 28% uptick in January and a 23% increase in February.

A new Democratic administration typically heralds a rash of gun purchases, as consumers fear the possibility of more restrictions on firearm purchases -- the election of Bill Clinton in 1992 accompanied an 18-month surge in firearm sales. But industry experts say the tough economy, along with a desire for leisure activities close to home, will ensure strong firearm sales in the coming months, regardless of the attention the Obama administration gives to gun issues.

BRIGHT SPOTS
Opportunities for the marketing and media industries in an otherwise bleak year
"The continued increase in gun sales can be attributed to both political and economic factors," said Ted Novin, director-public affairs for The National Shooting Sports Foundation. "In tough economic times, more people become concerned about security -- a strong reason to purchase a firearm. Similarly, when income is an issue, it's reasonable to believe that hunting becomes that much more popular. Hunting in the field, as opposed to a local grocery store, ensures safe, high-protein food at a much lower price."

Care of one's own
Eric Zinczenko, publisher of Field & Stream and Outdoor Life, said hunting is the only hobby where you can go out and "bring your dinner home." He added, "The ability to feed your family in these tough economic times [is] a point that we're seeing is not lost [on consumers]."

Sales figures at a host of manufacturers and retailers are surprisingly robust, given consumers are reigning in their spending habits. Regarding Cabela's strong fourth-quarter sales, President-CEO Dennis Highby said sales at stores open at least a year, which rose 2%, would likely have been down 1%, excluding firearm and ammunition sales.

"We're excited that we have the merchandise that people want in this type of environment," Mr. Highby said during a call with analysts. "We saw strength in ammunition, firearms; reloading was big; archery was strong. He added that those categories remained strong in the first six weeks of the year.

BassPro, a privately held company, also reports its sales are robust. Larry Whiteley, a spokesman for the company, said that the company had a "very good" fourth quarter and a strong start to 2009. Mr. Whiteley said firearm sales are up but added that the fishing category has been outperforming as well.

On the manufacturing side, publicly traded firearm manufacturers, such as Smith & Wesson and Sturm, Ruger & Co. are enjoying strong sales and relatively steadier stock prices. Smith & Wesson said aside from the 40% growth in pistol sales in its most recent quarter, tactical rifle sales soared 308%. Sturm, Ruger & Co. reported an 81% increase in firearms revenue. In a message on its website, Rock River Arms, which specializes in custom rifles and pistols, cites an "overwhelming increase in orders" in explaining why it can no longer provide estimated delivery dates, and notes that it is increasing production.

Now, I remember a surge in weapons sales when Clinton took office, and I remember what happened with the Brady Bill, but I don't recall a handgun ammo shortage such as we have now.

Wonder if it has anything to do with the alleged ammo microdotting scheme?
 
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arizonaguide

Guest
Excellent post Dusty! Thanks.

I was reading last night about how some of Clinton's friends had holdings overseas and ties to Norinco that it resulted in millions of these rifles being imported into the USA during the Clinton administration. Clinton’s hypocrisy had the result of allowing millions of Americans to purchase a military autoloading rifle (SKS) for around $100 or so. Not to mention all the cheap AK's. Very Ironic, considering the Clinton stand on so-called "Assault Weapons".

I just can't wait to see what's next. I have done my best to convince any liberal friends that I know, the importance of being able to protect one's self and one's family...and that taking away that protection from the good people doesn't take the guns away from the criminals. I think I've made some progress. But, it takes ALL of us.
 

P. Beck

Special Forces
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Guys,

I'm see'in a lot of figures here about bullet weights and muzzle velocities and expansion but not enough about penetration.

Regardless of mv and expansion, you need a round that will consistently penetrate a MINIMUM of 12-15" of soft tissue. IIRC, the FBI standard is 4 layers of heavy denim and THEN a minimum of 12-15" of soft tissue penetration.

Bullets poke holes. That's all. To do the job, you have got to poke holes in major blood-bearing organs. To do that you've gotta go deep. All the MV and expansion in the world will not help you if your 1100 fps hollow-points open up to .75" but only penetrate 3-4".

:2c: YMMV
 
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arizonaguide

Guest
Well Put, PB!

That's why I decided to carry the 135gr. Speers instead of the 110gr. Hornadys, even though the Hornadys have the little Polymer ball. Dusty may have the best idea with the heavier 158gr Buffalos.

It's a tough call with the .38, especially with a shorter barrel, because I want to have some reliable expansion (which they say requires 800-1000fps of volocity), yet I want reliable penetration also (which they say requires a heavier bullet, (or FMJ, which throws away expansion)).

There are various debates about FBI recommended ballistics and such, and you guys have more firsthand field experience than I do! (but, most are seeing the results of FMJ, correct?).

..But, one gunshot victim that I DID get a close look at (both back and front) had been shot with a .30 rifle hollowpoint (from approx. 100yds), and the front wound was a small pencil sized hole...and the exit wound was a hole the size of a grapefruit. When I saw that with my own eyes...it made a believer in me about the necessity of the expanding bullet.
(against tissue...not against barriers).

I know from the hole in the wall behind the victim that the bullet never expanded more than the typical 3/4" mushroom...yet all around the bullet hole in the wall was the splatter from what used to be the back (and insides) of the victim.

So, that high volocity expanding bullet went into the victim, expanded, and took a whole bunch of extra(cone shapped wound) muscle/organ/tissue/ribs with it. Cone shapped out to about a 3" exit wound.

Of course the volocity, energy, and penetration of a .30cal rifle is a hell of a lot more than a .38 will ever be!
(and if I could carry one in my pocket here in PHX, I would...trust me! I'm still debating a shotgun mount for the front seat of the car!;))

I guess the bottom line with the snubby is get the Biggest, Heaviest, Expanding .38 Bullet possible, at the Fastest Volocity possible...and then fight my way to that 12ga (or a .30cal rifle!)!!!
:)
 
D

dusty

Guest
Guys,

I'm see'in a lot of figures here about bullet weights and muzzle velocities and expansion but not enough about penetration.

Regardless of mv and expansion, you need a round that will consistently penetrate a MINIMUM of 12-15" of soft tissue. IIRC, the FBI standard is 4 layers of heavy denim and THEN a minimum of 12-15" of soft tissue penetration.

Bullets poke holes. That's all. To do the job, you have got to poke holes in major blood-bearing organs. To do that you've gotta go deep. All the MV and expansion in the world will not help you if your 1100 fps hollow-points open up to .75" but only penetrate 3-4".

:2c: YMMV

Good point. That's why I picked the 158 gr. SWCHP.

http://www.snubnose.info/docs/snubby_ballistics.htm





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dusty

Guest
I'm also in a situation where overpenetration could be a problem, so I have to find a happy medium with my J-frame. 158gr. looks to be the ticket, and it shoots point of aim. The 125's were a tad low.

I'm pretty close to the old FBI load, and I hear it did the trick for a few years.

Until Miami, anyway.
 
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