Case Study #3: Rules of Engagement

Marauder06

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OK, time for another case study.

Here's how this works- I post a situation, anyone who wants to can make responses in this thread, the thread evolves over time based on your responses, and at the end I put it all together into a little story for your entertainment. Example: http://www.shadowspear.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5689

Please note the disclaimer that this is pure fiction and except where specifically indicated otherwise, NONE OF THE STUFF IN THESE CASE STUDIES REALLY HAPPENED.

Here we go:

You and two of your buddies are having drinks at the bar of an upscale restaurant in downtown New York City. Having just returned from a deployment to Iraq, you're noisy but not disruptive. When you go to settle your tab, the bartender tells you that one of the other patrons who overheard part of your conversations left $100 with the bartender to cover your tab, along with the note "Thank you for your service." Since your tab only came to $30, you do what any Joe would- you sit down to drink $70 more. After all, you want your anonymous benefactor to get his money's worth, don't you?

As you are finally getting ready to leave, one of the few remaining patrons approaches you. You think he's another well-wisher, but it soon becomes apparent he is anything but. He asks if you are soldiers; you say yes. He asks if you have been in Iraq; you reply in the affirmative. His English isn't perfect, but it's clear he's a fan of Osama bin Laden and is not a fan of yours. He curses the three of you loudly in Arabic, spits on the floor, and identifies himself as a member of al Qaeda. He says something about his great leader, al Zarqawi (who at the time of this case study is still alive), and before any of you can respond he walks outside, where you can see him standing at the curb, waiting for a taxi.

Your two mates want to follow this self-identified al Qaeda individual outside; one of them wants to "kill that al Qaeda son of a bitch." One points out that Iraq your commander told you that you were allowed to engage and destroy individuals you positively identified as members of al Qaeda, regardless of the situation. Your other friend adds that as Soldiers, you have the obligation to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States, foreign and domestic," so you have the obligation to at least apprehend this guy.

so

1) can you do anything to the self-identified al Qaeda guy out front on the curb?

2) what do you do?
 

moobob

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I detain him and begin interrogating immediately.

If he is the real deal, we drop him off outside the nearest FBI office hog tied with a typed list of "areas of interest" to pursue.

If he is not, punch him in the face a few times and dump him off somewhere, preferably the psyche ward of the local hospital.

Treat the incident as if it is classified and never speak of it again. If it ever comes back to us, deny all knowledge of the incident. Since I do not live in New York, the odds of them ever figuring out who me and my buddy are = extremely low.
 

moobob

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Other than that, get a good physical description, ask around and see if anyone at the bar knows the guy, starting with the bartenders. Report him to my unit CI rep, and the FBI.

Either or works for me. Situation depending. We all gotta do our part to fight the GWOT :) Damn posse commitatus.
 
J

JJ sloan

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Contact law enforcement, get the number of the cab that he gets into. No need to get involved... legally, this would not work out in the favor of the soldiers due to the presence of alcohol and the probable assault that would take place. Highly doubt that an al Qaeda operative would openly reveal his status, which would make me doubt his story and not want to incur assault charges... big deal breaker for a security clearance.

But I would... first, make fun of his foolish smelly ass by discussing all of the booger eating, man loving turds that have been stacked up like chord wood during my deployment. Then I would question his committment to his leadership by asking him why the hell he is in the United States and not fighting for his cause.
 

pardus

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Call the terrorist hotline/911 and report him. Between the three of you you have a description, follow if need be but under no circumstances engage him.


Mara, if this takes 6 mths like the first one, i'm going to hunt you down lol
 

The91Bravo

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Call the terrorist hotline/911 and report him. Between the three of you you have a description, follow if need be but under no circumstances engage him.




Exactly what I would recommend.

As a LEO, I would be armed (but if that is the case, than $100 in a bar would be alot of Coka-Cola) I would follow him, call 911, tell them that an off duty officer is following a possible terrorist, and need an officer. Once they arrived I would tell them the exact nature of the contact with him, and let them do their job.

If the dude decided that it was his time to meet Allah, I would do everything within my power to help him along. But would not putting myself in jail over a piece of shit.

Mara, if this takes 6 mths like the first one, i'm going to hunt you down lol

Can I help?
 

Ex3

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$100 at a downtown bar might buy each guy 3 drinks, but 2 is more likely. :doh:


I'm with Pardus, note the cab number and call the FBI.
 

Hush

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Drag him in the alley and start water-boarding him with the $100 of booze you just drank.

Very interesting hypothetical. Being drunk is a real kicker. Kinda makes your actions viewed in a different light by a passer-by or first responder. Seeing how you're in the US, and an actual AQ operative probably wouldnt expose himself like that, a sober rational person would most likely see him for what he is...an unbalanced Arab probably with mental problems (or a typical fundamentalist muslim) but being a half in the bag soldier, I would have that sumbitch is getting tackled and shackled. In the light of day, he would be released, unless he had subway plans on him, and you would probably be charged with assault. Hopefully somebody with a brain would pass his name on to the feebs, and they could at least look into him. Interesting......

Wait! I think I just found the fatal flaw in this hypothetical! If this purported crazy Arabic Al-Qaeda member really existed.....why would he be waiting at the curb for a cab? Wouldnt he be driving his own cab instead?
 
A

arizonaguide

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I would attempt to follow and report, but:
Seeing how you're in the US, and an actual AQ operative probably wouldnt expose himself like that, a sober rational person would most likely see him for what he is...an unbalanced Arab probably with mental problems (or a typical fundamentalist muslim).

Follow and report.
Other than that, get a good physical description, ask around and see if anyone at the bar knows the guy, starting with the bartenders. Report him to my unit CI rep, and the FBI.

Two buddies return to bar to ask around, while YOU Get the Cab number, attempt to follow, attempt to get any tangible evidence:
Drink glass, Bottle, Follow and detain taxi, any kind of identification (fingerprints, etc). that you can pass along to FBI.


Perhaps you may be able to get prints off the Shoe he threw... (or am I getting my stories confused?)
}:-)
 

Mac_NZ

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You weren't one of those types that gave the Malays Kiwi rats and told them it was pork after they ate it were you?


As to the hypothetical scenario:
My first thought was stab him with a broken bottle and throw him in a dumpster but there would have been a large number of witnesses in the bar so that gives that plan the Kibosh. I'll go with everyone else and notify the authorities but first I would photograph him as best I could with my cell phone and hopefully my mates would the same.

Even if he is just mouthing off its better to be safe than sorry, I think a couple of people tried being safe when some Arabic sorts asked for flying lessons.
 

car

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Don't confront the fucker any further, don't bring the war back to the streets of NYC, don't try to be super-spook and track the guy (Grab another taxi - "Follow that cab!")

Calm your buddies down, make sure that you have a description between the three of you, get the cab number, and call the cops.
 
A

arizonaguide

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So, what about a print/address somehow?
If he paid all cash, he could be completely "in the wind".
 

Chopstick

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Wait! I think I just found the fatal flaw in this hypothetical! If this purported crazy Arabic Al-Qaeda member really existed.....why would he be waiting at the curb for a cab? Wouldnt he be driving his own cab instead?

Ditto that as well as..why the fuck is he in a bar surrounded by the demon rum? I thought they didnt drink alcohol?:uhh::2c:
 
A

arizonaguide

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They do make exceptions on that rule in the interest of killing infidels.
There is an "official" waiver on that rule...but I can't remember the Islamic "name" of it.

I also wonder if during his "tirade" and yelling about alQuida, if I wouldn't first be looking for any strange packages around the bar?

Hey Marauder, do you still have a link to Case study #1?
 

pardus

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Funnily enough something very similar happened in real life to myself and xSF med in NYC, except there were two terrorists/supporters and they were with/associated with one of the IRA groups. :2c:
 

Hush

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About as plausable as a CIA operative breaking his cover in Beirut confront somebody from AQ, make a scene, and spit on the floor. Only over there, he'd be killed pretty quick.

Also, I dont know if you've ever dealt with the police before, especially in NYC, but if you call in a description of an Arab male you suspect of being a terrorist at 2 am......the desk sergeant is going to roll his eyes, and give you a "Ok sir, we'll be sure to follow up on it." Never to be heard from again. Like they're gonna track down some arab in NYC off a phone tip, with nothing more to go on than a DESCRIPTION. Tan, ugly, beard. This hypothetical calls for a shit or get off the pot answer. Detain him, or let it pass. Anything inbetween in the real world, probably aint gonna get any results.
 
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