I'm with you 100% on this. Same same...
Case Study #3: Rules of Engagement
- Thread starter Marauder06
- Start date
I'm with you 100% on this. Same same...
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2006
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- 1,846
I don't have the experience that y'all do, but somehow engaging someone like that on the streets of a major city in the US doesn't strike me as the brightest idea I've ever had (esp if I'm not 100% sober). And it seems that this could backfire quickly if local authorities don't know what you're doing.
I'd try to ID, call the FBI and try to go that route, but even if that route doesn't work, I'd still err on the side of caution. If he's willing/stupid enough to do it once, he'll probably do it again, and he's probably not the sneakiest SOB out there... :2c:
I'd try to ID, call the FBI and try to go that route, but even if that route doesn't work, I'd still err on the side of caution. If he's willing/stupid enough to do it once, he'll probably do it again, and he's probably not the sneakiest SOB out there... :2c:
J
JJ sloan
Guest
That's what is wrong with our military today... everyone wants to get the low hanging fruit. Why not turn him in to someone who knows what the hell they are doing in an attempt to catch some bigger fish?
I'm pretty sure that's what I was agreeing with (i.e. hand him over to the FBI after a little "chit chat"). I'm all for the "big picture".
J
JJ sloan
Guest
My bad... misread your post.
http://www.shadowspear.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5493
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OK, let's take a break from the storyline for a minute and take a look at the underlaying hypothetical. You're a Soldier, who has sworn an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. This guy self PID's as al Qaeda. He shows you his membership card, a tatoo, a pic of himself and bin Laden... whatever passes for positive ID with them. He's AQ. Your country is engaged in a Global War on Terror. Here's an AQ member right here in front of you. Can you engage this individual like you could if you were back in Baghdad? Why or why not?
A
arizonaguide
Guest
Legally I think you COULD detain him for a short while for the police (concerned citizens).
Positive ID? Hmmmmm. In my case I think me and the boys are still doing some recon.
Not sure I'd detain him off the street, or at all. If he really has been PosID, be cautious that it could be a trap for over-eager soldiers. And counterintel may want to play him, without him knowing he's under investigation.
I think for me it's (still) "eyes on", and same time call in the big boys (FBI).
Get as much further ID data as possible. Swab/save the spit for DNA sample? Fingerprints on empty glass? Follow that Cab. Of course THAT "next cab" could be a trap for over-eager soldiers, too.
Good challenging scenario Marauder.
Positive ID? Hmmmmm. In my case I think me and the boys are still doing some recon.
Not sure I'd detain him off the street, or at all. If he really has been PosID, be cautious that it could be a trap for over-eager soldiers. And counterintel may want to play him, without him knowing he's under investigation.
I think for me it's (still) "eyes on", and same time call in the big boys (FBI).
Get as much further ID data as possible. Swab/save the spit for DNA sample? Fingerprints on empty glass? Follow that Cab. Of course THAT "next cab" could be a trap for over-eager soldiers, too.
Good challenging scenario Marauder.
No.
The rules are different here than there, although the lines seem to be blurring lately (see: "Blackwater Five"). But, no, unless you're legit LE, you can't detain the bastard. Report it, try to keep eyes on, continue to report. But as we'd all like to "take him into alley and waterboard him," I really don't think you can apprehend the dude - within the law - without an assload of problems afterwards. The ACLU would have a field day with you - right or wrong.
The rules are different here than there, although the lines seem to be blurring lately (see: "Blackwater Five"). But, no, unless you're legit LE, you can't detain the bastard. Report it, try to keep eyes on, continue to report. But as we'd all like to "take him into alley and waterboard him," I really don't think you can apprehend the dude - within the law - without an assload of problems afterwards. The ACLU would have a field day with you - right or wrong.
A
arizonaguide
Guest
I think Car is correct.
I think the closest you could do is a "citizen's arrest" and it would not only slow/blow further undercover investigation, but could tie up 3 soldiers (and your superiors) in bullshit court/ACLU grief for months!
Eyes on(watch for trap), call FBI. Save evidence.
I think the closest you could do is a "citizen's arrest" and it would not only slow/blow further undercover investigation, but could tie up 3 soldiers (and your superiors) in bullshit court/ACLU grief for months!
Eyes on(watch for trap), call FBI. Save evidence.
Well here's my stab at an answer.
The above is the key question in this scenario for me. Regardless of what you want to do...no, you cannot. The simple fact is there is a different ROE in a war zone vice back home on the streets of the USA.
Best plan might be to call homeland security whilst figuring out a way to detain him. Just in case.
J
JJ sloan
Guest
I personally would not want to interfere whether legal or not. The best thing is to get those involved who have the authority and the assets available to role up the entire cell if in fact the dude is legit. No low hanging fruit! Therefore, I would agree with Car and Arizona. We need to focus on the bigger picture.
:2c:
:2c:
A
arizonaguide
Guest
I'd still wanna kick his ass for blowing my $100 Buzz though!!!
So, for sure I'd go out of my way to get the info!!!
Beware of the ol' Shanghai, or worse.
So, for sure I'd go out of my way to get the info!!!
Beware of the ol' Shanghai, or worse.
If I had the time, I would get involved if I knew I could get away with it. Chances are, the proper authorities are pretty overloaded and will write off the incident as not worth looking into. Even if he is legit AQ, he will probably be defended by the ACLU for having his rights violated no matter how legitimate the arrest was, and justice will cost the taxpayers thousands.
I will risk his life and career to keep the streets of New York safe for partying, at the same time saving you guys tax dollars money. Just kidding! I'd never do all that. Really.
To be serious, best I could do is jot down descriptive data, and question people in the area to find out as much as I could about the guy. Report to the FBI. And hope I am successful in convincing my buddy that the guy is probably some dipshit college student that spends his free time cheering for Jihadist videos on Liveleak even though he is too much of a p**** to go anywhere near deployed U.S. soldiers himself, and hope my buddy still doesn't want to go gut the guy.
Whether or not Mr. Al Qaeda is legit isn't really important. Either way, someone as Mara described doesn't have a long life expectancy anyway.
I will risk his life and career to keep the streets of New York safe for partying, at the same time saving you guys tax dollars money. Just kidding! I'd never do all that. Really.
To be serious, best I could do is jot down descriptive data, and question people in the area to find out as much as I could about the guy. Report to the FBI. And hope I am successful in convincing my buddy that the guy is probably some dipshit college student that spends his free time cheering for Jihadist videos on Liveleak even though he is too much of a p**** to go anywhere near deployed U.S. soldiers himself, and hope my buddy still doesn't want to go gut the guy.
Whether or not Mr. Al Qaeda is legit isn't really important. Either way, someone as Mara described doesn't have a long life expectancy anyway.
AugieSpook
Unverified
Time to take our new "friends" to a private location for a little interogation, once we help them up from their unfortunate fall. After that, a quick call to a "special" friend and he can take it from there. The end of the story unfortunatetly is classified, no one ever hears or sees these ingrates again. On to the next bar!
pardus
Verified Military
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2006
- Messages
- 10,535
In light of the new info I would calls the cops immediatley and tell them I have a terrorist acting in a manner I feel is a danger to the public and they need to be here NOW!
Then I would shadow the guy until the cops got him or if he was going to get away i.e. in a taxi I would try to physically stop him.
I wouldn't attack him, but I feel physically detaining him is legit under the circumstances :2c:
Once the cops FBI get him they can be smart and use him for bait etc... my job is to see they get onto him.
Then I would shadow the guy until the cops got him or if he was going to get away i.e. in a taxi I would try to physically stop him.
I wouldn't attack him, but I feel physically detaining him is legit under the circumstances :2c:
Once the cops FBI get him they can be smart and use him for bait etc... my job is to see they get onto him.
Beyond a lot of good ideas already posted, I'd be wondering if there wasn't someone else associated with him in or near the vicinity - why create such a vocal/visual distraction....
J
JJ sloan
Guest
Your post and your signature say alot about the way that you think.
Hush
Unverified
Guys, seriously:reality check. This guy is standing on a curb, waiting for a cab. On the basis of a phone call, even to 911, the NYPD does not have the resources to respond in time to apprehend this guy, let alone conduct a hasty surveillance to later "ensnare" him. Thats if they take you seriously. And what do you think the response time for the FBI or Homeland inSecurity is, especially after office hours close at 5pm? To think that you are gonna track down an Arab guy in NYC (pop. 8.2 MILLION PEOPLE) off the basis of a description, or a cab number is pure fantasy. Its closing time, his glass has been picked up off the bar and put in the dishwasher (as if a print would do anything either) and Im pretty sure that even IF he used a credit card, which is unlikely, it probably wouldnt have his real name on it. Soooooooooooo I may be mistaken here, but I believe that the question isnt calling for a "call the police immediately" answer, but something more along the lines of a direct action response.
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