I agree. I say the same thing all the time. We throw up more metal detectors and some fancy bomb sniffing machines at the airports (false sense of security),and everybody thinks we're safe and it will never happen again. The only thing that suprises me is that it hasn't happend yet. Like you said brother it will have to happen again and again, or on a large scale for people to let us take off the kid gloves.
CIA Assassination Program
- Thread starter tjwest
- Start date
I agree. I say the same thing all the time. We throw up more metal detectors and some fancy bomb sniffing machines at the airports (false sense of security),and everybody thinks we're safe and it will never happen again. The only thing that suprises me is that it hasn't happend yet. Like you said brother it will have to happen again and again, or on a large scale for people to let us take off the kid gloves.
SexyBeast
Verified Military
You're absolutely right. I'm taking a class on assassination and politics right now for school and Israel seems to be the only ones who understand the point. They seem to be about the only ones who understand what's at stake if they don't erase certain dickheads from the face of the planet.
Like you said, it's going to take some bad shit happening again and again for our citizens to finally get their heads out of their asses and understand why programs like this must exist. People here are much more concerned about Jon and Kate or who is in the top 5 for American Idol than they are about what the fuck is actually going on in the world.
SexyBeast
Verified Military
Google "DGSE operations HOMO" (yes, seriously) my friend...
ha ha cool! I guess that's also one way of keeping people from blabbing about what they do.."oh I'm in the homo division"
Thanks for the info bro!
A perverse part of me wishes he was alive so he could be dual-hatted as the "Awesome Czar" and "Anything-you-White House-and-State-pussies-don't-have-the-stomach-for Czar"
We need a Donovan/Boykin/McChrystal-type character up there on the NSC to keep the bullshit and leaks to a minimum. Let people do their jobs. Heaping piles of equipment and funding, minimal oversight.
LTGEN Lute is the AfPak/Iraq Czar in real-life.
Why do I keep reading about SAP's I'm not supposed to talk about in the fucking paper? And within 24 hours it's all over the web and MSNBC?
That is fourth of fifth time I've seen stuff like this in the open. It's clas for a reason! Jesus. /rant off
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I'm with you bro. I hope you're not saying you're pissed at me for sharing it on a spec ops forum after it was published for the world to see. I appreciate OPSEC at least as much as the next operator who has had to survive by it. You're absolutely right. People should be behind bars for this crap.
SexyBeast
Verified Military
I'm not.
It shouldn't be out there.
We shouldn't even be commenting on it...
it should not be anywhere except in a SCIF somewhere.
Whoever leaked this latest nugget from McLean (or Capitol Hill, because that's where I think it leaked, through a Congressional staffer or aide to a reporter) should be shot.
Since I am not advocating members of Congress or the Senate to be shot, rather their incompetent and leak-happy aides and staff, I stand by my statement above 100%.
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FORAC,
Many times the information is put out there by irresponsible people at the higher levels and the enemy has it straight out of the gate. In this case, my impression was that the operators might as well know what the enemy has already gotten.
Still, if you feel like this forum is a significant source, I'd say contact one of the moderators and request he simply pull the entire thread. I'm sure they'd comply, especially if you effectively articulate your concern.
Many times the information is put out there by irresponsible people at the higher levels and the enemy has it straight out of the gate. In this case, my impression was that the operators might as well know what the enemy has already gotten.
Still, if you feel like this forum is a significant source, I'd say contact one of the moderators and request he simply pull the entire thread. I'm sure they'd comply, especially if you effectively articulate your concern.
You misread my post.
SS is not the problem. The LEAKERS are the problem. Most here are .mil or .gov and realize the implications of unauthorized disclosure. Myself included.
The leakers are the issue here and the target of my anger and frustration. I protect stuff in safes for a living, I did it in the Navy, I did it for a coalition task force and I do it as a civilian. This stuff really bothers me.
HOLLiS
Verified Military
AS it once was explained to me:
Intel is like a jig saw puzzle. Except you don't know what pieces the other guys has or needs.
A piece maybe seemingly insignificant, of absolute NO value to you, but that one piece is the one piece the other guy needs to pull it together for him.
This is why, nothing is said one way or another, no denial, no admittance, NO nothing.
Intel is like a jig saw puzzle. Except you don't know what pieces the other guys has or needs.
A piece maybe seemingly insignificant, of absolute NO value to you, but that one piece is the one piece the other guy needs to pull it together for him.
This is why, nothing is said one way or another, no denial, no admittance, NO nothing.
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Can I quote this?
HOLLiS
Verified Military
Sure, I probably should have asked who told me this, if I could do that too.
I don't think he would mind.
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Thanks! In my sig now. :)
Back on the topic of assasination, I was thinking about this last night, not having read through all these posts. I pose a couple of questions for your bemusment:
1. What was the intended end state for the war in Iraq?
2. What is the current desired end state?
3. Could this have been accomplished with a greater economy of time and resources?
In my opinion, if the desired endstate was to be rid of the Saddam regime, taking out the key players could have accomplished that mission. Anyone that has worked with IA or IP forces knows that the officers that Americans train and work with on a daily basis were members of the same Army/ Security Forces we fought against, twice.
We are told that assasination is wrong, but is it? Four thousand sons and daughters of America dead and counting for the same result that could have been achieved through darker, less "valiant" means. Where is the ethical dilemna? This, of course, is not a fact. Just something to think about.
The counterpoint as I see it, is we should not return to shaping the world through puppet governments and botched CIA plans, such as in the days of the Banana Republics and on into the 1960's. There should be the same air of responsibility in killing an enemy of the state as there would be in considering a full-on invasion. At the end of the day, I think if something like this were to be carried out, it should be carried out transparently and by men who take an oath. People who wear suits to work sometimes think too much for the good of everyone.
Another counterpoint would be the truth in that there is no substitute for BOG (boots on ground) perspective. Intel, good intel, is 70-80% accurate. Who among us would pull a trigger and intiate the butterfly effect based on "kinda sure"? What if that invasion is needed to figure out the endstate?
Or you could just give the standard backbrief answer, "METT-TC sir."
1. What was the intended end state for the war in Iraq?
2. What is the current desired end state?
3. Could this have been accomplished with a greater economy of time and resources?
In my opinion, if the desired endstate was to be rid of the Saddam regime, taking out the key players could have accomplished that mission. Anyone that has worked with IA or IP forces knows that the officers that Americans train and work with on a daily basis were members of the same Army/ Security Forces we fought against, twice.
We are told that assasination is wrong, but is it? Four thousand sons and daughters of America dead and counting for the same result that could have been achieved through darker, less "valiant" means. Where is the ethical dilemna? This, of course, is not a fact. Just something to think about.
The counterpoint as I see it, is we should not return to shaping the world through puppet governments and botched CIA plans, such as in the days of the Banana Republics and on into the 1960's. There should be the same air of responsibility in killing an enemy of the state as there would be in considering a full-on invasion. At the end of the day, I think if something like this were to be carried out, it should be carried out transparently and by men who take an oath. People who wear suits to work sometimes think too much for the good of everyone.
Another counterpoint would be the truth in that there is no substitute for BOG (boots on ground) perspective. Intel, good intel, is 70-80% accurate. Who among us would pull a trigger and intiate the butterfly effect based on "kinda sure"? What if that invasion is needed to figure out the endstate?
Or you could just give the standard backbrief answer, "METT-TC sir."
SexyBeast
Verified Military
