Code Over Country by Matthew Cole

AWP said:
I’m not the one being being a passive aggressive cool guy. You do you.
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This forum has a history of comments from folks who have never worked with or been associated to that command making comments about it. Making a simple comment such as go see what the command climate actually is does not make it passive aggressive.
 
BloodStripe said:
This forum has a history of comments from folks who have never worked with or been associated to that command making comments about it. Making a simple comment such as go see what the command climate actually is does not make it passive aggressive.
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Since you have knowledge of the command, do you care to refute any of the points made in this thread?
 
Devildoc said:
Addendum, an interview with the author:

America Loves the Navy SEALs. It Hasn’t Been Good for Them.
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And the psychological impact of 20 years of combat was repeatedly mentioned in the book. There is no way that hasn't been a major contributing factor.

The book also illustrated that 3 of the most powerful SEALs still in uniform are all ST6 alumni, former commanders. And those three all had roles in participating in, or covering up, various crimes/ incidents. The fact that the bad apples are a very small minority was also repeatedly addressed, it is just that the bad apples are protected by their officers, a need to protect the brand, and a mafia-like code of silence.

It all rises and falls on leadership and I see problems in NSW as being those . officers and senior enlisted have to solve. Some of the "bad guys" need to go. Boot them from Six, from the SEALs, revoke Tridents...especially the last one.

I personally think Slabinski should have never received the MOH based upon the awards criteria. His actions on the mountain may warrant the award, but his actions afterwards should, by US Code, eliminated him from consideration. The way they smeared Chapman... just the most infuriating section of the book. Credit a guy with saving your team, but then conduct a character assassination on him later because his award will expose you and your unit? Pure trash.

The community needs leadership. It doesn't need to shutter units or anything like that. Rescind unit awards, individual awards where appropriate, fire some people, and take away some Tridents. The survivors will learn how to behave.
 
Their selection process is their weakness imo.
Marchinko selected fan boys, who then developed a system designed to bring like minded individuals in.
The good ol boy network continues after separation/retirement with contracts or jobs provided.
So why change?

SOF isn't the only organization to try and hide misdeeds from prying eyes. Every organization does it.
 
AWP said:
Since you have knowledge of the command, do you care to refute any of the points made in this thread?
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I can’t tell you and if I did I would have to kill you. LOL
@BloodStripe I am no longer an Admin so I can say what I want, If you are not going to back up what you said, just leave.
 
So this book is just fucking bananas.

Slabinski and the Chapman affair is one of the most embarrassing stories of inter service rivalry and “face saving” I have ever read about. The pattern of SEAL arrogance, even in the face of video evidence is just astounding to me.

The Melgar stuff made me sick to my stomach. I can’t even talk about it. Having worked with certain units in grey areas in certain places, I’m just glad this wasn’t me.

I’m overall not surprised. I’ve always called SEALs frat boys with guns. Their true code is “if you’re not cheating you’re not trying”. Which sounds cool until you have no collective integrity, and will skate by at every opportunity.

I’m no saint, I don’t think any real SOF guy is. But these guys were fucking awful.

@AWP thanks for the recommendation…..I guess
 
BloodStripe said:
This forum has a history of comments from folks who have never worked with or been associated to that command making comments about it. Making a simple comment such as go see what the command climate actually is does not make it passive aggressive.
Click to expand...

I think you need to step up and talk about your experience with the command
 
TLDR20 said:
Slabinski and the Chapman affair is one of the most embarrassing stories of inter service rivalry and “face saving” I have ever read about. The pattern of SEAL arrogance, even in the face of video evidence is just astounding to me.
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Try reading "Alone at Dawn: Medal of Honor Recipient John Chapman and the Untold Story of the World's Deadliest Special Operations Force".

The book goes into intimate detail of the operation and the surrounding elements that contributed to the failures/fuck ups. What happened is inexcusable. The book never outright points blame, but reading the order of events, it doesn't need to point. You'll do that yourself.


ETA: I'm just starting the Slab/Chapman part of "Code Over Country:.
 
TLDR20 said:
Having worked with certain units in grey areas in certain places, I’m just glad this wasn’t me.
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Hate to say this, but I'm so morbidly curious now. I think my copy of the book is coming in on Wednesday. I know I probably can't react with the same proper background as some others on the Board can but I have to see this now.
 
Archangel27 said:
Hate to say this, but I'm so morbidly curious now. I think my copy of the book is coming in on Wednesday. I know I probably can't react with the same proper background as some others on the Board can but I have to see this now.
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Same. I just downloaded to my Kindle. @AWP should get a commission for the number of books he sold this week.

All the years we’ve been doing this here, has there been any other book that has warranted this much immediate discussion and flash purchases ?

It says something about the culture and membership here; there are other places I frequent where this topic would be shouted down and the book figuratively burned.

Before you can affect any meaningful change, you sometimes have to study and accept the secrets in the attic first.
 
Something to consider too, and I "get" there are those who aren't fans of the book, is that a decent amount of the book played out in the public record. Chapman, Melger, Bissonnette, O'Neil, portions of the Slabinski GWOT experience story...This stuff is open source, in legal proceedings, and even directly from the participants themselves.

So, discredit some of the book. Fine. It is a hatchet job by a liberal author blah, blah, blah. Okay. There are VERY damning portions of the book that can't be brushed off or explained away. We've seen these pieces before or they are in the open for someone to collate.
 
TLDR20 said:
So this book is just fucking bananas.

Slabinski and the Chapman affair is one of the most embarrassing stories of inter service rivalry and “face saving” I have ever read about. The pattern of SEAL arrogance, even in the face of video evidence is just astounding to me.

The Melgar stuff made me sick to my stomach. I can’t even talk about it. Having worked with certain units in grey areas in certain places, I’m just glad this wasn’t me.

I’m overall not surprised. I’ve always called SEALs frat boys with guns. Their true code is “if you’re not cheating you’re not trying”. Which sounds cool until you have no collective integrity, and will skate by at every opportunity.

I’m no saint, I don’t think any real SOF guy is. But these guys were fucking awful.

@AWP thanks for the recommendation…..I guess
Click to expand...

Bold part is a huge part of the problem.
 

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