Covid-19

Ooh-Rah said:
Doctors on the Theodore Roosevelt Feared Dozens Would Die in Coronavirus Outbreak

WASHINGTON—Four doctors aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt warned in a memo to Navy medical officials in March that dozens of sailors would die of Covid-19 if the entire aircraft carrier weren’t evacuated within 10 days, mirroring the urgency voiced at the same time by its commander.

“The only solution to save the lives of sailors is to immediately get everyone off the ship into appropriate isolation or quarantine,” the March 30 memo said, according to a copy of the document reviewed by The Wall Street Journal. “There is no other option.”

The medical team’s warning, the details of which haven’t previously been reported, indicated that there was a “high probability” that up to 1% of the roughly 4,800-member crew—or “50 or more” sailors—could die, and that hundreds of sailors would fall ill. The limited medical facilities on Guam, where the ship by then had docked to offload sailors sickened with Covid-19, would soon be overwhelmed, the doctors wrote.

“We will not stand by while our fellow sailors continue to be exposed to this fatal virus,” the memo said. “The time has come for aggressive measures to be taken and we are asking for your help.”

The memo, sent to the Navy’s surgeon general and a group of other naval medical personnel, ended with a threat to go public with their concerns if Navy officials didn’t move faster to fix the problem.

The medical team’s memo adds a new wrinkle to an episode that has deeply affected the Navy, resulting in the removal of the ship’s commander, Capt. Brett Crozier, for writing and distributing his own memo about the outbreak, and the resignation days later of the man who fired him, acting Navy Secretary Tom Modly, all while hundreds of sailors became ill.

Navy officials have said they were moving to address the outbreak and send aid to the vessel. But the doctors’ concerns as portrayed in the memo show that Capt. Crozier wasn’t alone in thinking that the Navy needed to act faster to help the ship and its crew.

A report from a continuing investigation, expected to be released in the next week, will address issues surrounding the outbreak, the firing of Capt. Crozier, and what the Navy did or didn’t do as the Roosevelt’s crew faced the crisis. That investigation is also examining senior naval officers serving above Capt. Crozier in the chain of command, officials said.

On Wednesday, the aircraft carrier left Guam after docking there for nearly two months because of the Covid-19 outbreak. On board were about 3,300 of its crew members, defense officials said. Some remained behind in Guam because of health issues related to the disease, with many staying ashore because the ship’s cramped living quarters prevent proper social distancing.

In the past week, at least 14 crew members who had reboarded the ship in preparation for its departure from Guam tested positive for the virus, Navy officials said. Navy officials declined to disclose the destination of the ship, whose home port is San Diego.

The views expressed in the one-page medical memo, summing up an air of urgency aboard the carrier at the onset of the outbreak, in part prompted Capt. Crozier to write his own memo, sent to senior Navy leaders about the same time. Capt. Crozier’s memo became the subject of news reports, leading to his removal. The warning that 50 sailors could die was reported by the New York Times in April.

The medical team’s memo, signed by the ship’s chief medical officer and three other doctors aboard the ship—a general practitioner and two surgeons—plus a physical therapist, was sent to the Navy surgeon general and other naval personnel on March 30.

During the time both the ship’s commander and his medical officers were writing their respective memos, the Navy was making preparations on Guam to offload the crew, Navy officials have said. That included reopening restaurants and hotels that had been shuttered due to coronavirus and finding transportation to get the crew off the ship and to accommodations where they could quarantine. Military medical personnel had been flown from Okinawa, Japan, to help assist the crew.

Rear Adm. Bruce Gillingham, the Navy surgeon general to whom the doctors’ memo was addressed, replied the same day in an attempt to assure the doctors that the Navy was trying to accommodate the sailors, officials said, and urged them to remain within the chain of command and not release the letter to the public.

The Navy declined to comment about the memo, citing its continuing investigation.

Capt. Brett Crozier was cheered by fellow sailors as he disembarked the coronavirus-stricken USS Theodore Roosevelt. He was relieved of duty April 2 after his superiors said he had lost his ability to lead. Photo: Zuma Press (Originally published April 3, 2020)
Crew members have said that fears about an outbreak erupted after the carrier completed a five-day port call in Vietnam in early March, although officials have said the virus may have been brought on board by air crews.

After the memo written by Capt. Crozier became the subject of media reports, Mr. Modly, then the acting Navy secretary, fired Capt. Crozier, saying he had lost trust and confidence in the captain.

Mr. Modly resigned just days later, following a backlash over his address to aircraft-carrier crew members over the ship’s public-address system. The White House then replaced Mr. Modly with James McPherson, the Army’s undersecretary. While an initial Navy investigation recommended that Capt. Crozier be reinstated, Mr. McPherson ordered the subsequent investigation now under way.

In all, 1,178 sailors across the Navy currently are infected with the virus, according to the latest Navy statistics. They are among 2,298 sailors who have contracted coronavirus in recent months. More than half of the Navy’s cases originated on USS Theodore Roosevelt.
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How is that the article can be missing fundamental info, such as this: In the end, one sailor died and 3 were hospitalized?!
 
Ooh-Rah said:
As restaurants re-open in Minnesota, it was announced yesterday that reservations were required.

Odd? Well this was done so that the Govt has a papertrail record of who ate there and when for tracking purposes. I'd like to introduce myself, Bob Berditzmen. Good to meet you!
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The whole thing has become so asinine.

Minnesota's Models Were Created Over One Weekend Partly By Students

Coronavirus testing error at St. Paul nursing home called 'disaster' by state officials

The decisions about what can be open and what can't along with the "safety" precautions required are so schizophrenic. The governor has grossly mismanaged and overstepped his authority while the media has played the role of useful idiots. There is no absolutely no consistency or logic in the approach. Decisions need to be returned to the legislature.
 
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America is Over COVID-19

"America is over COVID-19. There’s no denying it. And the sooner everyone realizes that, the better.
I don’t mean “over it” in the sense that everything is better now and things are like they were before, because that is clearly not the case. The disease is still spreading, albeit considerably more slowly than predicted, and people are going to continue to die from the Chinese coronavirus and its complications. When I say “over it,” I meant it in the sense of “we played your silly games, now it’s time to move on.”"

1590081198563.png
 
AWP said:
Current numbers from the CDC. Quick takes:
- 65 and older is when the fatality rate really jumps
- There are more deaths from pneumonia than CV-19
- CV-19 is far deadlier than the flu.

Provisional COVID-19 Death Counts by Sex, Age, and State | Data | Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

My hot take: the virus isn't the flu so I don't know why that is still a talking point, and it clearly is bad news, but is it "ruin an entrie planet" bad?
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It's still a talking point because of the "it's just a cold, bro" crowd still insisting it's just a cold.

Spot on re: CDC hot takes.

I think the big issue we're going to see is a) young people who get it even with minor symptoms may have long-term sequelae, and b) we don't know what some long-term sequalae might be.

There's still so much we don't know, especially with kids and young people.
 
AWP said:
My hot take: the virus isn't the flu so I don't know why that is still a talking point, and it clearly is bad news, but is it "ruin an entrie planet" bad?
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It's a talking point because you catch them the same way and they are similar. Both are viral respiratory diseases. You catch coronavirus by breathing in particles from someone whom is infected.


Marauder06 said:
America is Over COVID-19

"America is over COVID-19. There’s no denying it. And the sooner everyone realizes that, the better.
I don’t mean “over it” in the sense that everything is better now and things are like they were before, because that is clearly not the case. The disease is still spreading, albeit considerably more slowly than predicted, and people are going to continue to die from the Chinese coronavirus and its complications. When I say “over it,” I meant it in the sense of “we played your silly games, now it’s time to move on.”"

View attachment 34001
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So I wrote this on a triathlon forum of which I'm a member. Many seem to be left leaning, but apparently just like here the attitudes shift when whomever is President (in a different part of that board) But here is my observation from the weekend:


"The world I live in is the real one. The one that is not full of people on slowtwitch or twitter or even Facebook. For example, this weekend I drove up Beeline Highway to the Bush Highway bridge and then down Bush Highway to Saguaro lake to scout both a long ride route and the beach at Saguaro for OWS (have never swam there). The PEOPLE are done. Every since parking spot was full, the loading zone was full of parked cars. The beach itself? Slammed. Then I drove south again on Bush Highway and and the sides of the highway near the other beach had cars parked all over the sides of the road. Then I continue driving, every spot on the Salt River where there was a rec site or parking was slammed. Salt River Tubing, humming hardcore.

Whether there is a vaccine deployed in the Fall or not, there's multiple strains of this virus and enough people have been infected that we're stuck with this. It's a Viral Respiratory Disease, that means you're talking a vaccine every year like the flu vaccine. And people still don't get the flu vaccine every year. "
 
Florida173 said:
I think people might be realizing that there are moving goal posts. those CDC numbers still don't concern me.

Going back to this canuck to tell me his take on it.

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Haven't heard of that guy before but I'm following him now. That sums up my frustrations way better and minus an added 10 minutes of expletives that I would have added.
 
Ooh-Rah said:
Today I received an invite from a very good friend in regards to staying at their cabin this weekend.

I accepted. Moments later I received this.

We will have some rules. You are not allowed to touch anything in the kitchen area (sink, fridge, micro, etc).

You have exclusive use of the bsmt BR and bathroom. There will be hand sanitizer at the front & back doors and we will all use it whrn going thru those doors. Masks must be worn by everyone inside if we are sharing the same small space.

No mask req'd outside so long as 6' distance is maintained. I think we can manage it in a way that we can be safe and still enjoy being here.

I sent a note back and politely declined the invite letting them know I would look forward to seeing them when they felt more comfortable having guests in their lakehome.
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It's funny, because my grandpa is in his late 70s, maybe early 80s. I dunno, I'm a bad grandchild, but even he's over this. "I'm too old to deal with this shit. Whatever happens happens. I'm going outside."

Ranger Psych said:
Long story short, life has fucking risk. If you're healthy, you can hang. If you''re a fucking plague rat, stay the fuck home.
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I wonder how many pro-choicers are at home advocating for the stay at home to be extended to save even one life...

ThunderHorse said:
It's a talking point because you catch them the same way and they are similar. Both are viral respiratory diseases. You catch coronavirus by breathing in particles from someone whom is infected.

So I wrote this on a triathlon forum of which I'm a member. Many seem to be left leaning, but apparently just like here the attitudes shift when whomever is President (in a different part of that board) But here is my observation from the weekend:

"The world I live in is the real one. The one that is not full of people on slowtwitch or twitter or even Facebook. For example, this weekend I drove up Beeline Highway to the Bush Highway bridge and then down Bush Highway to Saguaro lake to scout both a long ride route and the beach at Saguaro for OWS (have never swam there). The PEOPLE are done. Every since parking spot was full, the loading zone was full of parked cars. The beach itself? Slammed. Then I drove south again on Bush Highway and and the sides of the highway near the other beach had cars parked all over the sides of the road. Then I continue driving, every spot on the Salt River where there was a rec site or parking was slammed. Salt River Tubing, humming hardcore.

Whether there is a vaccine deployed in the Fall or not, there's multiple strains of this virus and enough people have been infected that we're stuck with this. It's a Viral Respiratory Disease, that means you're talking a vaccine every year like the flu vaccine. And people still don't get the flu vaccine every year. "
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I applied for a couple positions in Phx so it's very likely I'll be moving to Peoria in the very near future. Can't wait to get back home.


ETA: Let's talk about contact tracing and what it really means. The simple premise is to identify someone who may have been exposed and to provide them with notification and appropriate knowledge on how to move forward. My question is, how long before states take that to the extreme and force a mandatory quarantine on an individual with severe legal repercussions for violating it? Because at this point, anything is possible. And you know the neighbors are more than willing to report that ass for a quick reward.
 
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ThunderHorse said:
Man we got some weird shit going on:
Denver orders closure of USPS facility that handles mail for all of Colorado, Wyoming

And what I was pretty sure would happen is happening, this sucks.

California doctors say they've seen more deaths from suicide than coronavirus since lockdowns
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I'm so disappointed with how things are playing out.

Kaldak said:
Can a state close a federal building?
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I feel like a lot of these orders from governors could be challenged by interstate commerce laws.
 
Kaldak said:
Can a state close a federal building?
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What I heard on the morning news is that the facility is remaining open, told they state they are following all CDC guidelines...

"USPS officials were quick to respond and the facility remained open on Thursday.

“We strongly disagree with the Denver Public Health order, which was made without a visual verification, without advanced coordination with the team of postal employees working on these issues with Denver Public Health, and without the understanding of the Postal Service’s substantial, ongoing efforts to protect its employees and the public,”
 
So, this article is mostly about deaths being undercounted...but then there's a whizbang about how deaths are not being counted correctly by some of these Coroners and DOHs. Washington state’s actual coronavirus death toll may be higher than current tallies, health officials say

They’ve also identified about 100 deaths that are not linked to a positive case, but “we can’t rule them in or out,” Hutchinson said. About five cases involved COVID-positive people whose deaths involved gunshot wounds, she said.

“Our current dashboard reflects anyone who died, that tested positive for COVID, irrespective of cause of death,” she said.
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Let's count people as COVID related deaths, even though they were actually murdered. WTF is going on here?

ETA: AP count: Over 4,300 virus patients sent to NY nursing homes

So, yeah, that's pretty shit.
 
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