82ndtrooper;185604]On your first point. I agree, highly trained SWAT units only, but just how highly trained are SWAT units these day's when I see "Dallas SWAT" rock n rolling in full auto through two 30 round mags ?
I think I covered that, in my last! TEXAS!
Who have they been trained by ? What prior experience do our SWAT team members actually have, other than on a static range flat range ?
In this State as is in many other States, the basic SWAT course is controlled by that State. As I recall, the training curriculum and standards were set up by the FBI.
Usually, agents from the local office's SWAT team monitor the course and some time provide instructors. They also use selected people, from major LE agencies SWAT teams in the State as instructors. (State Patrol, Seattle Police PD and King County Sheriff.)
Their are two SWAT classes, Basic and Advanced. The courses are conducted on Ft. Lewis, WA and many different types of ranges, are used depending on the weapon being fired and the type of training being conducted. There is also a special course for snipers.
My old SWAT team, as well as most others in our State, train as a team regularly, in both weapons and tactics, to include fast roping from the departments Chopper. In a recent training exercise, my old team fast roped on to a moving State Ferry out in Puget Sound.
In the selection process, the SWAT Team commander, try's to pick people from Military Special Operations units, such as SEALs, SF, Rangers and both Airborne and Infantry combat veterans. I think there are at least two SEALs, two Rangers and and SF guy or two on my old team. Many are in the Reserve, NG, etc. and have been deployed a few times to the GWOT. I think most major LE agencies do this in selection.
If a SWAT team member expends 5-7 rounds on full auto how many grains of lead is he throwing at a particular target ? If I used one shot from a 12 gauge of OO buck how many grains of lead am I throwing at one target, with minimal chance of collateral damage ?
Most of the FA weapons on my old team were fixed with the 3 rd burst selector. So, 5 — 7 Rds, Isn't a big factor. As I pointed out not much need for more than a 3 Rd burst. Exception? Suppressive fire to cover team movement or rescue wounded, etc.
Shot guns in SWAT teams are used more for entry tools, and firing ferret (CS Rds.) It is also one of the weapons in the entry team for close up work.
What empoyment of either weapon system is best ? I would like to think I know the answer to that question, but I've not served on a SWAT team. Food for thought kinda thing.
Most teams, use either MP-5's or M-4 Carbines now days, for there entry teams along with at least one semi-auto shotgun. I think the M-4s are now more popular with most teams, because of Bad Guy body armor and some other reasons. Most teams, have also opted to carry .45 or .40 Cal Semi-auto handguns, no matter what, the normal department issue pistol is. I think the .45 leads the pack there.
If one of officers does employ his or her rifle in the full auto function and my son is injured or killed, then I'm going to demand training records for the officer in question ? What is their skill level? how was it obtained? what is their ROE regarding the use of full auto? and who has trained them and how often has that particular officer trained with the weapon system ?
I think I sort of covered this before. In any case the civilian legal system has both criminal and civil resources to cover such incidents, as injuries and death by police action. Yes, Training records could become a part of such criminal or civil action. LE Agencies need to keep their individual officers training records up to date, etc. to cover all the things you have mentioned. Most major departments do so. ROE as I said should be covered in the Departments firearms regulations and/or policies.
As of right now, I'm afraid my department would have a hard time coming up with anything more than one day at a range with a ANG guy having been the designated firearms marksmenship instructor.
Sooner or later, especially with the issue of FA weapons to regular officers without special training, etc. Your community will be spending 'mucho' $$$ to settle law-suits, etc. Not to mention the bad media.
On your second point. I was not trying to diss the ANG individual about his prior service, however I highly doubt that he's any more qaulified than me to employ the use of full auto with an AR15 rifle. Not that I'm a high speed low drag dude type, but I'm not a newbie to the weapon systems that our department is about to start carrying along with the shotgun in their crusiers. I might even be so bold as to say that I could probably teach most them how to actually employ the weapon system. I don't think they even know how to zero their irons at this point.
I agree! Offer your services to your Chief and explain so of the stuff we're talking about here. Doesn't your State Training Commission have any training standards for these things? :eek: