Gas piston or Gas tube

Quietstorm3155

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I want to knowif any of you guys have tried the LWRC rifles with the gas piston system... (attch Video) Or have you tried any of the other Gas piston rifles that are competeing with the AR15/M4 gas tube systems? Below is also an OLD thread talking briefly about a test which was to compare these diff operating systems but I have not heard anymore. So who has used the Gas piston system and how do you like/dislike it?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N03LVJgUWdU"]YouTube - LWRC Gas piston rifles[/ame]



https://shadowspear.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6751&highlight=lwrc+rifle
 

AssadUSMC

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I haven't used the LWRC piston rifle, but I've used the HK 416 extensively. I am a HUGE fan of piston over the gas tube. Look at the FN FAL - probably the 2nd most successful battle rifle ever (after the AK). Piston design....

The biggest advantages IMO are 1) maintenance/cleaning and 2) reduced recoil impulse (my subjective impression w/the 416). I'm currently looking into purchasing an LWRC M6A2 - I need to stop by their shop (about 20 min from me) and have a chat. If I find out anything new, I'll post it.
 

CAL

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It's funny you ask this now - I'm actually doing some research on the exact question because I'm looking to build a .308 on the AR platform. So far, all signs are pointing to gas pistons.
 
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08steeda

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Can you covert an AR with a Gas Tube gun to use a Gas Piston?

I know probably a stupid question. :(
 

CAL

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Both are good questions.

Well, it may be worth the price to some folks so I'll leave that for the individual to decide but I'll talk a bit about why I think the GP system is better.

When the rifle is fired, the developing gases expand inside of the gas block much like a traditional DI system. The expanding gases push against our short stroke piston which exerts pressure on the operating rod and thus gives momentum to the bolt carrier. Once the piston itself has traveled 3/4", it expels any unused gas from a small vent in the bottom of the piston tube. As the cycle of the action is already in progress, the piston moves to the back of its chamber awaiting the return of the operating rod to push it back into battery.

Here are a couple of animations that show the differences. (you can toggle between the HK for the GP and the AR for the DI by clicking the button in the bottom right corner)

http://www.armytimes.com/projects/flash/2007_02_20_carbine/

The primary benefit of going Gas Piston is a higher level of reliability by running a cleaner and cooler AR by moving the operation of the rifle from the upper receiver and bolt carrier to the front gas block using a small diameter short stroke piston which does not require constant cleaning or lubrication like a Standard DI (Direct Impingement) AR does in order to ensure functionality.

Also, you can have your AR cleaned in 5 minutes, vs. 30 minutes with a normal AR.

The Bolt Carrier and Charging handle are broken down the same way, and the Gas Piston Tube is located inside the Gas Block and is removed by pressing on the piston tube nut release button, turning the tube and removing it by pulling it out.

Then the tube is broken down very easily by removing the cross pin, removing the nut and taking the piston out of the tube.
 
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08steeda

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Plus based upon my research (today) and discussions the Gas Piston has a much lower recoil. Thus allowing a quicker followup shot and sight picture alignment. This would be the case for multiple targets in a highly Mobile environment.

Plus the lower heat saturation does not effect accuracy from the barrel etc heating and warping in high fire situations.

At least that is what I THINK I have learned.

The problem is that the conversion kit is 300 - 450 plus the labor by a reliable gun smith.

Probably better and more cost efficient just to get a Gas Piston rig to start with.
 

CAL

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Plus based upon my research (today) and discussions the Gas Piston has a much lower recoil.
Yep, I forgot about that. With the Standard AR, the action is direct blow back into the upper receiver and the recoil is felt more in the upper receiver, closer to your face and shoulder.

The Gas Piston System uses a small diameter piston that only travels about 3/4" and meets the fixed op-rod, (which is affixed directly to the Bolt Carrier Group). The Recoil is not as harsh since the action is now occurring in the gas block at the forward part of the rifle, plus the excess gas is blown out of the gas block.
 

Quietstorm3155

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I haven't used the LWRC piston rifle, but I've used the HK 416 extensively. I am a HUGE fan of piston over the gas tube. Look at the FN FAL - probably the 2nd most successful battle rifle ever (after the AK). Piston design....

The biggest advantages IMO are 1) maintenance/cleaning and 2) reduced recoil impulse (my subjective impression w/the 416). I'm currently looking into purchasing an LWRC M6A2 - I need to stop by their shop (about 20 min from me) and have a chat. If I find out anything new, I'll post it.

Let us know what info you can get from them(LWRC). Also see if you can demo a weapon!
Thanks
 

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AssadUSMC

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Let us know what info you can get from them(LWRC). Also see if you can demo a weapon!
Thanks

I am going to call them on Monday - it looks like they moved to MD, so it's a little farther away, but if they can help me out, I'll still go visit. If any of you SSSO guys are in the NOVA area and care to join me, I'll drive. Just PM me your phone # and I'll give you a call.
 

AssadUSMC

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So help me out here. Who makes them? I've found:
Bushmaster, http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_xm15_BCWA3F16M4-GP.asp
CMMG (though there's no mention of it on their website unless I'm blind):
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411535332
LWRC's M6A2: http://www.lwrifles.com/
POF-USA: http://www.pof-usa.com/p415/p415.htm

Any others out there that I missed?

Those are the same ones I know, though I'd steer clear of Bushmaster. Their M4s were breaking left and right on my last deployment. I stuck to my Colt-mfg.
 

Quietstorm3155

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So help me out here. Who makes them? I've found:
Bushmaster, http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_xm15_BCWA3F16M4-GP.asp
CMMG (though there's no mention of it on their website unless I'm blind):
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411535332
LWRC's M6A2: http://www.lwrifles.com/
POF-USA: http://www.pof-usa.com/p415/p415.htm

Any others out there that I missed?

Heres a few more. There are some good vids on youtube you might want to look at.

Heckler & Koch 416
H&K XM8
FNH USA's Special Operations Forces Combat Assault Rifle, also known as SCAR Mk16

Check out how the host of future weapons HESITATES big time when the weapons staff gives him the bolt @ 7min mark of the vid. LMAO, but id react the same way. He thought hed get blistered :eek:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZpZryZEiY4"]YouTube - Future Weapons: Heckler & Koch's HK416 Assault Rifle[/ame]
 

CAL

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Those are the same ones I know, though I'd steer clear of Bushmaster. Their M4s were breaking left and right on my last deployment. I stuck to my Colt-mfg.
Standard (non gas piston) Bushy's were failing?
 

CAL

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So help me out here. Who makes them? I've found:
Bushmaster, http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_xm15_BCWA3F16M4-GP.asp
CMMG (though there's no mention of it on their website unless I'm blind):
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411535332
LWRC's M6A2: http://www.lwrifles.com/
POF-USA: http://www.pof-usa.com/p415/p415.htm

Any others out there that I missed?
I added Addax tactical to the list here.

Link to Addax Tactical

I'd be curious who makes the piston system for a couple of the folks you listed. I wonder how many players are in the game.
 

AssadUSMC

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Standard (non gas piston) Bushy's were failing?

Yep, broken sears, broken gas keys (!?!?), broken extractors... All kinds of small, piddly crap that could cost you your life. I had a 416 a while, but the allocation went to a different group of folks. We may get them again when the next batch arrives. Low man on the totem pole as I don't kick doors (strictly a defensive thing).
 
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