OppressorsBeware
Verified SOF
I think a rebuttal would be appropriate. I'll have him contact you if he's interested.
Hell and Back - Special Ops Ranger
- Thread starter goon175
- Start date
I think a rebuttal would be appropriate. I'll have him contact you if he's interested.
I think that would be great to get a former cadre NCO to address the concerns brought up. The PAO certainly is not doing it.
I think the show sucked. That is all.
Word on the street is that the honor grad had a rough day yesterday...
Just a heads up. For those who missed it, the show is available on-line.
PM me for details.
PM me for details.
Our members are too stupid or lazy to Google special ops ranger torrent?
It's not on torrents.
But as you wish.
But as you wish.
Sadly I tried that a bit earlier including on some torrent sites. Nobody seemed to bother recording this.
You can Google the show and watch it on YouTube...If you want the link, send me a PM.
Anyway, I personally think the show sucked. I've been told that there are cadre plugged in at key areas of Infantry School & Airborne to assist those heading off to RASP. I never heard of that until a few days ago, but I don't doubt the source one bit. However, I don't know how well that plays in to attrition rate. I also don't know how many people drop out of the 3 week Pre-RASP phase either. Maybe that's where the attrition is? Just need some numbers to work with, so hopefully someone still active in Regiment can feed us the information. Granted they took 8 weeks and condensed it to 45 minutes of footage, I still think there was an injustice done with what was aired.
Overall, I think RASP is a better training model and adds some needed, basic fundamentals for being a Ranger (which saves your TL a lot of headache when you hit Battalion), but you have to ensure the selection is still physically strenuous. I did not see the physical torment, which was so common in RIP, portrayed on the show; which leaves me to believe it either wasn't aired or it just didn't happen. I'm leaning towards the latter due to the high graduation number, but that's an educated guess at best.
I understand it's not always about the numbers or attrition rate when it applies to being a good Ranger. However, history has proven in every selection process across every branch, that very few people can endure such intense physical labor, hence the high attrition. You want a fucking athlete graduating RASP, someone who can run guns and carry his buddy out of a fight. If you don't have that physical torment during the selection process, then you'll have a ton of guys graduating who shouldn't be there in the first place. Have the physical torment and make sure there are standards in place to assess everyone's competence so you're not just graduating strong Rangers. And how the fuck can you fail land nav, have integrity violations, etc., and still be allowed to graduate RASP and wear the scroll? That fucking blows my mind.
I'll get off my soap box. Look forward to input.
Anyway, I personally think the show sucked. I've been told that there are cadre plugged in at key areas of Infantry School & Airborne to assist those heading off to RASP. I never heard of that until a few days ago, but I don't doubt the source one bit. However, I don't know how well that plays in to attrition rate. I also don't know how many people drop out of the 3 week Pre-RASP phase either. Maybe that's where the attrition is? Just need some numbers to work with, so hopefully someone still active in Regiment can feed us the information. Granted they took 8 weeks and condensed it to 45 minutes of footage, I still think there was an injustice done with what was aired.
Overall, I think RASP is a better training model and adds some needed, basic fundamentals for being a Ranger (which saves your TL a lot of headache when you hit Battalion), but you have to ensure the selection is still physically strenuous. I did not see the physical torment, which was so common in RIP, portrayed on the show; which leaves me to believe it either wasn't aired or it just didn't happen. I'm leaning towards the latter due to the high graduation number, but that's an educated guess at best.
I understand it's not always about the numbers or attrition rate when it applies to being a good Ranger. However, history has proven in every selection process across every branch, that very few people can endure such intense physical labor, hence the high attrition. You want a fucking athlete graduating RASP, someone who can run guns and carry his buddy out of a fight. If you don't have that physical torment during the selection process, then you'll have a ton of guys graduating who shouldn't be there in the first place. Have the physical torment and make sure there are standards in place to assess everyone's competence so you're not just graduating strong Rangers. And how the fuck can you fail land nav, have integrity violations, etc., and still be allowed to graduate RASP and wear the scroll? That fucking blows my mind.
I'll get off my soap box. Look forward to input.
The moment it went from an indoctrination to a selection; things went to shit.
Yes phase 2 of RASP 1 is a great addition. But that shouldn't even be part of our conversation. Phase 1 is still supposed to be a RIP with a new name. It isn't.
RIP was an indoctrination to the Ranger lifestyle. A lifestyle of pain, misery, stress, and deprivation. When you don't torture the candidates in RASP, how will you know if they can perform on an objective? A 32 minute five mile run time, 2:30 12 mile ruck march, and 300+ PT test, and 5 out of 5 during Land Nav is fine and fucking dandy - but what happened to testing for mental fortitude?
Yes phase 2 of RASP 1 is a great addition. But that shouldn't even be part of our conversation. Phase 1 is still supposed to be a RIP with a new name. It isn't.
RIP was an indoctrination to the Ranger lifestyle. A lifestyle of pain, misery, stress, and deprivation. When you don't torture the candidates in RASP, how will you know if they can perform on an objective? A 32 minute five mile run time, 2:30 12 mile ruck march, and 300+ PT test, and 5 out of 5 during Land Nav is fine and fucking dandy - but what happened to testing for mental fortitude?
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But dude, we evaluate the "whole man" now using modernized training techniques and statistical analysis in order to graduate a better "product"!
Hahaha....
lol I see what you did there..
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Where do I fill out my application to be an Army PAO? I have advanced degrees in bullshitting and shamming so I should fit right in!
OppressorsBeware
Verified SOF
Okay. But my question is has anyone here actually personally witnessed a marked decline in the performance of the guys they're receiving lately or us everyone shaking their heads in response to the low attrition of a few recent RASP classes without bearing witness to the actual results? Has anyone here been personally involved as cadre in the program and can certifiably assert it's bulls*** or is this the opinion formed from second hand accounts? I have yet to hear "im still in and all the new guys are all turds nowadays." Because all my buddies on the line from 1st and 2nd batt are saying the opposite. Im not saying im right, but I'm hearing different accounts from the dudes still wearing the beret than from this forum. I just want some more clarification as to where these doubts are rooting from.
My info is coming from the guys who went through the RASP classes in question. I think the overall RASP program has been producing great stuff, I think the lapse in standards has only been for the past few months. I know my brothers class was hard as hell.
OppressorsBeware
Verified SOF
See, but that's the issue. The guys in the class don't see the whole picture. They don't know what's going on behind the scenes, the decisions made at the cadre level or why. They're making assessments based off their 6-8 months of Army experience, and almost no SOF experience. I have difficulty recognizing their perspective as more legitimate than the guys instructing the course, and definitely less legitimate than my 1sg/psg/sl/tl buddies on the line who are saying the opposite. As for the issue of so called sliding integrity standards, I can say I definitely saw a number of guys in my time over the years make some mistakes that could have or should have resulted in getting sent worldwide or RFS'd but due to a whole character evaluation were allowed to stay and went on to become great squad leaders. Standards exist for reason, but so do leaders, and people aren't perfect, even in the community. It's easy to take the black and white approach from the!! outside looking in, but that's not the color of the world we inhabit.
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I fail to see how morning PT and a couple patrolling classes a week constitutes such a great Pre-RASP program that now only the best guys are going to RASP which accounts for the very high graduation rates. Is this information incorrect?
OppressorsBeware
Verified SOF
I wasn't implying that pre-RASP was the great equalizer. From what I understand, there are a number of other measures in place that mitigate the inflow of acid trash to RASP and to the battalions. I've heard positive reviews from dudes at the team leader/squad leader/psg level say they're very pleased with the guys they're getting from RASP. The guys I've talked to working RASP or recently having left RASP for the line again had nothing but good stuff to say about the way business was done. Until I hear a massive inflow of negative reviews from my buddies who are actually there either at the ROC or kicking doors, I can't buy the hype just yet.
