Is rational discussion/debate disappearing?

[RackMaster]

Disclaimer: This is no way intended as an "attack" on the Left or Progressives.

We've all seen it, it even happens here occasionally but it seems like the irrational responses are increasingly coming from one side. Do you think the tide can be turned?


The Psychology of Progressive Hostility - Quillette

 

[Poccington]

I doubt it in all honesty.

With social media, it's become far too easy for people to completely avoid dealing with people who offer different opinions and that carries into how they engage in discussion in the real world. Some of it is nuts.

ETA: I mean I doubt the tide can be turned to stop the madness.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

It is. There was a time that I blamed the 'Left' because it seemed like if you disagreed with them in anyway, you were an unenlightened racist. But I also have very good friends on the "Right" who consider me a Obama/Clinton liberal commie if I dare suggest that they are not fully responsible for the downturn of America.

Recently I've listen to a couple of interviews with Joseph Califano Jr. He was an editor at Harvard Law Review and was LBJ's top White House domestic aide. He has written a number of books about that administration and how politics has changed over the decades.

The idea of walking across the hall and sitting with your 'enemy' to hammer out a deal is foreign today; compromise has become a sign of weakness. Personally I blame social media and Pitchfork Nation. People are so quick to be 'outraged' that the decision makers are not really given a chance to consider issues before a microphone is shoved in their face asking what they are going to do about what happened 5 minutes ago.

The knee-jerk reaction on the gun issues is a good example of that.

 

[Devildoc]

Yes. Next question?

When you have people who belong to the NRA called terrorists, when you have a white person get a job and is accused of getting the job because of white privilege, yeah, I think rational discourse is gone.

 

[AWP]

It largely has died. My political bias says this is more on the left than the right, but the reality is that both sides have a problem with emotionless discussion, entertaining other views, and the ability to compromise. You still see civil discussions take place, but that's pretty rare in my opinion.

 

[Topkick]

Yesterday, a workmate stated that Trump wasnt very smart and has not accomplished anything. When i pointed out that he was a very rich man and gave a couple of examples of his presidential achievements, my workmate said "you've been watching Fox news again" and stormed off like a child. I agree that most discourse is left-handed, but both sides have stopped listening.

 

[Marauder06]

The danger on the left is that some have convinced themselves that "words are violence," the kind of violence that one is justified in protecting oneself against by "any means necessary." Once you've convinced yourself that any kind of speech you find offensive is a green light to physically assault someone else, it's hard to see how a rational conversation can take place.

 

[Poccington]

The danger on the left is that some have convinced themselves that "words are violence," the kind of violence that one is justified in protecting oneself against by "any means necessary." Once you've convinced yourself that any kind of speech you find offensive is a green light to physically assault someone else, it's hard to see how a rational conversation can take place.

Thankfully, people can retreat to their safe spaces!

 

[Marauder06]

Thankfully, people can retreat to their safe spaces!

Unfortunately that option does not exist if you're conservative, hetero, white, and/or male.

 

[Devildoc]

I agree that while moderate and rational debate has largely gone away on both sides, the level of animosity and vitriol is much much higher on the left. It seems that the left has a much shorter trigger to go from 0 to extreme than anyone else.

Example I noted under gun discussion a couple weeks ago was from an old acquaintance that I've known since the 80s who on Facebook said if you belong to the NRA to just unfriend him and when I tried to just have a conversation he attacked me and accuse me of "loving my guns more than loving the kids in Florida". I mean, where do you go that?

 

[Topkick]

Thankfully, people can retreat to their safe spaces!

Many on the left would like to see that. Meh..I'll pass on that option.

 

[Frank S.]

There's a lot of common sense wisdom in there:
Important - mod note- professionalism reminder

That said, quoting Mara: "overly-emotional arguments, false "facts"", I've seen many discussions derailed before they really got off the station because the sources cited came under attack. Years ago, the Left called Fox News "Faux News" and today, CNN, NYT, ABC et al are "Fake News".

As Groucho Marx reportedly quipped "who're you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes..?"

 

[Poccington]

Unfortunately that option does not exist if you're conservative, hetero, white, and/or male.

Well, obviously... Any combination of the above and you suddenly become the proud owner of "privilege", which you must be reminded to keep in check at all times!

Safe spaces, privilege... It's all madness.

 

[Bypass]

 

[DocIllinois]

I think the fact that so many folks now assume from the outset that everyone must hold a far leaning political position or opinion on an issue also tends to poison discussion. IME, most folks's positions are somewhere in between.

I attended the grand opening of a new business by the local Chamber here and struck up a conversation with a woman in attendance who is also a local business owner, who I'd spoken to before at a similar event. In conversation, she seems to be as left leaning as I. This was shortly after the Stoneman Douglas shooting, so the subject turned to opinions on that, then gun control. I told her about my views that differ from folks who think that citizens should be able to own ANY kind gun they want as a right, but that gun ownership shouldn't go away completely.

"So you're one of those who thinks that government will take over and everyone's out to get you and all that?" was her serious reply, and she took further discussion from that point.

What has caused this sort of thinking, I don't know. Perhaps the venom spewing and impersonality of the internet has conditioned folks to imagine its just easier to assume that everyone falls in line with an oversimplified image?

 

[Red Flag 1]

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[Frank S.]

Hank and Jim

 

[256]

The

It largely has died. My political bias says this is more on the left than the right, but the reality is that both sides have a problem with emotionless discussion, entertaining other views, and the ability to compromise.

I think you’re absolutely correct. People make decisions based strictly on emotions and make no effort to base their arguments with fact (my wife doesn’t do this at all...). There’s another key issue playing a hand, self-deception. It’s crazy how much people preclude themselves from the problem to make their argument fit.

I’ve never seen it more than being a Policeman. As an example: We have a new underpass in the town I serve, people complain about how dangerous it is to us all the time. So we enforce the laws and when we do they complain about it. The underpass is only dangerous because people operate their vehicles dangerously. It has zero to do with the underpass, I haven’t gotten into an accident there and I drive through it more than anyone else in town.

Another example: We have “mostly” set schedules at work. We rotate shifts every two months (it sucks) but it’s so you can plan things for your family throughout the year. But, it is Police work and your schedule could change a little. So I make the schedule then print/scan/email it to each Officer on 15th of the month for the next month. One of my guys complained to me that he was late for work because the schedule changed and I didn’t make him aware of it. I told him I made him aware of the schedule change on the 15th, when everyone else gets the schedule. It’s not my fault you didn’t look at it and assumed what was on it...self-deception at its best.

Just a long way of saying, people take themselves out of the “problem equation” so they can argue for their behalf. Crazy stuff.

 

[Dame]

Problem with facts: People don't like them. They ruin their opinions.

 

[Kheenbish]

I believe not only have people lost the concept of a respectable debate on certain topics that mainly include politics, but also to be even to talk it out in person. The age of trash talking over a computer has nullified people's ability to converse in person.

A lot of friends from my home town lean left, and we keep a group chat with about ten of us. They constantly argue about politics with me, mainly foreign politics even though none have lived outside of our home state. These "debates" usually turn ugly and I'm just told of too much of a capitalist and Patriot which I guess is an insult nowadays ? But the real kicker is I go home and no one says a word about politics or wants to talk about it, even though almost daily over text we mention politics.