Is the MARSCOC .45 the Right Gun?

JAB what I am saying is there is a difference between being competent in shooting and knowing about pistols in a civ/LE environment, and in a SOF environment. We do things different, we shoot different, and I don't lie this guy thinking he knows better than the actual shooters who chose and employ this pistol. That is my beef. I am sure there are lots of guys who know more about pistol fundamentals, and pistols in general. But they are not as well versed in real CQB as I am. So they can take their knowledge and shove it. This guy is one of those types as far as I am concerned.

Interesting stand you’re taking on the “differences” and without the SOF experience to pull from I’ll have to take your word for it. I would be more than willing to test those “differences” on a range, in a shoot house, competition or with Sims.

I agree with your stand on the author of the article, but obviously take issue with the broad brush stroke your painting of the conventional/civilian side. Also it makes me wonder why so many SOF firearm instructors have gone to civilian/competitive shooting schools.
 
Interesting stand you’re taking on the “differences” and without the SOF experience to pull from I’ll have to take your word for it. I would be more than willing to test those “differences” on a range, in a shoot house, competition or with Sims.

I agree with your stand on the author of the article, but obviously take issue with the broad brush stroke your painting of the conventional/civilian side. Also it makes me wonder why so many SOF firearm instructors have gone to civilian/competitive shooting schools.

I am just talking tactics. I am not the worlds best pistol shooter. I will never say I am . As for the shoothouse, it is a matter of tactics that are only taught in certain places. I am saying that the guy who wrote this article is an idiot. I am not bashing you, as you don't say you know better than me what I need. This guy thinks he knows better than what the shooters need. He can go fuck himself. The reason so many SOF guys go to civilian schools is because that is where the 20+ year tier 1 guys are teaching now.
 
I am just talking tactics. I am not the worlds best pistol shooter. I will never say I am . As for the shoothouse, it is a matter of tactics that are only taught in certain places. I am saying that the guy who wrote this article is an idiot. I am not bashing you, as you don't say you know better than me what I need. This guy thinks he knows better than what the shooters need. He can go fuck himself. The reason so many SOF guys go to civilian schools is because that is where the 20+ year tier 1 guys are teaching now.

Gotcha, I agree the dude is an idiot.
 
Big question regarding the 1911. I've read that it takes A LOT more gun world 'know how' in order to keep this gun at full speed.
How is that? Larry Vickers compared the 1911 to the M-16 rather than the AK - it does speak vollumes about the weapon system.

Plus, many guys write about how highly accurate the 1911 is. How does that help if the target is about 20 or 30 meter from you? What is the typical engagement distance for a sidearm?
 
The 1911 tends to dislike poor maintenance more than other pistols. Guns that are run hard will eventually need replacement parts, and some of these do best with hand-fitting so it helps to be handy with a file. Ill-fitted parts will cause no end of headaches. Whereas some guns can accept off-the-shelf parts without a problem, not so the 1911. Parts like the extractor sometimes need to be tuned. Proper lubrication is another issue (one that I recently learned after many rounds is best solved with FrogLube). Of course, this isn't an all-inclusive list.

What this means:
To a civilian shooter who casually shoots the 1911- not a damn thing.
To LEOs who carry it for defensive purposes- Spend the money for a good gun, learn the gun, be your own armorer to an extent, have a spare gun, find a great pistolsmith.
I'm out of my lane here, but my feeling is that within a SOF unit that issues 1911s, the above wouldn't be a problem. The shooters should know the gun intimately, and would have access to a good armorer to handle the routine stuff and/or issue another pistol as necessary. Most importantly, the unit would have damn good guns.

The biggest problem I've seen with 1911s is that people buy cheap, and then tinker with them.

A well-tuned 1911 is arguably one of, if not the, most accurate handguns available. That said, I believe most reputable manufacturers i.e. Glock, SIG, Heckler & Koch, Smith and Wesson build guns that are capable of greater accuracy than most shooters can achieve. For me, I'll take every advantage I can get.

A pistol's inherent mechanical accuracy is most important when shooting at distance. A trained shooter can make hits with just about anything at CQB distances (it's about the shooter, not the tool). However, as distance increases a pistol with great accuracy becomes invaluable because a less accurate pistol is likely to deviate more from the point of aim the farther away you are. It should also be noted that because the 1911 has both a great trigger and a low bore axis, it is easier to shoot faster and to manage the recoil than guns that do not have these attributes.

Combat distance is always unpredictable. The FBI maintains stats on this from a LE perspective, but my own experience has agreed with their numbers only 50% of the time. I can say from a SWAT perspective that unless I was aggressing the bad guy when my M4 went tits up, I'd prefer to let my teammates handle their business while I unfucked the gun (shouldn't take long). Inside a room or building, I'd transition immediately to my pistol. SOF doctrine/experience may differ, and I defer to them.

I can also tell you I can think of more than a few gunfights that were fought at 25m +. You can't pick the day, time, or battlespace but you can load the deck in other ways. One such way is using a very accurate pistol that lends itself well to defensive use.
 
Big question regarding the 1911. I've read that it takes A LOT more gun world 'know how' in order to keep this gun at full speed.
How is that? Larry Vickers compared the 1911 to the M-16 rather than the AK - it does speak vollumes about the weapon system.

Plus, many guys write about how highly accurate the 1911 is. How does that help if the target is about 20 or 30 meter from you? What is the typical engagement distance for a sidearm?

I'm not a pistol guy. With regards to 'know how' Think about who this article is about MARSOC, rather special troops with advanced training, so not an issue.
As for comparing the 1911 to the M16, umm so what? What is the rifle the US Military carries? lol Doesn't mean it's the best but it's fine as it's service history shows.

As a side note, I have issues with the comments made that the M16 is an ergonomically great rifle. The cocking handle and bolt hold open lever are in awful places. .02c
 
Personally, I love my issued MEUSOC. Yeah it doesn't have a 15 or 17 round capacity, but with 8 to 11 rounds at close range (10 m and in) that's 8 to 11 bad guys with some very big holes in them. The only problem I've ever had with my 45 is lite strikes due to the cheap .45 ammo the military uses. Other than that I've ran thousands of rounds through the gun with zero problems. That's in the rain, and after crawling in the dust and mud. This author is another example of someone who has no idea about what he is talking about. If you know how to shoot and you have a big enough caliber you don't need 5 shots to take somebody out of the fight. I don't care who you are a .45 through the bridge of your nose is laying you out most ricky tic.
 
Personally, I love my issued MEUSOC. Yeah it doesn't have a 15 or 17 round capacity, but with 8 to 11 rounds at close range (10 m and in) that's 8 to 11 bad guys with some very big holes in them. The only problem I've ever had with my 45 is lite strikes due to the cheap .45 ammo the military uses. Other than that I've ran thousands of rounds through the gun with zero problems. That's in the rain, and after crawling in the dust and mud. This author is another example of someone who has no idea about what he is talking about. If you know how to shoot and you have a big enough caliber you don't need 5 shots to take somebody out of the fight. I don't care who you are a .45 through the bridge of your nose is laying you out most ricky tic.

That lite strike was probably SMG .45 ammo. (unless the pistol had a trigger job)
 
Naw. I it was standard .45 ACP, it just like everything else in the military, made by the lowest bidder.

The lowest bidder thing, gives a guy a nice warm feeling when he goes out beyond the wire. :)

When I have run into that stuff, that was the reason, they use a harder strike primer. A friend brought some by, 50/50 to work with first strike in his 1911. It was 100% fire in my Uzi (.45 acp)
 
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