Larry Vickers' Case

[policemedic]

Funny you say that. Part of my job as a paramedic for the Township I work was verifying that the PD med bags/AEDs were good to go, monthly. I'd have access with cops to their sector SUVs.

One cop I know had his rifle bag there, I asked what AR he had. It was a nice one, suppressed, department allows it.

I asked if he paid his tax stamp, his response, we don't need to pay that. I'm not sure if he's fucking around or if that's the case. If it is the case, it proves my point.

If he owns it himself, he has to pay his tax stamp even if he uses it on duty (I did). If his department owns it, then no (we had a fuckton of HK MP5 suppressors we didn’t pay tax stamps on).

 

[Muppet]

If he owns it himself, he has to pay his tax stamp even if he uses it on duty (I did). If his department owns it, then no (we had a fuckton of HK MP5 suppressors we didn’t pay tax stamps on).

He claims it's hit rifle, department suppressor.

 

[AWP]

I’ll take a beating for this, but if the department didn’t issue the firearm then the officers shouldn’t be allowed to carry the weapon.

 

[Devildoc]

I’ll take a beating for this, but if the department didn’t issue the firearm then the officers shouldn’t be allowed to carry the weapon.

There is a liability component for sure. I can see both sides.

 

[Devildoc]

Damn, used to watch a lot of his videos, really respected his service and professionalsm. Always wanted to take a course but will never have that chance now.

Also, whats a demo letter? And it says sanctions? What good gun manufacturing country are we sanctioning?

He's a great instructor for sure, but since his teaching gigs are, ah, questionable, check out John 'Shrek' McPhee. Also a great instructor, former Delta (GWOT era), and a totally different personality.

 

[BlackSmokeRisinG]

^I've seen some of the "Sheriff of Baghdad" videos. Diff personality spectrum for sure, still good training.

 

[Muppet]

He's a great instructor for sure, but since his teaching gigs are, ah, questionable, check out John 'Shrek' McPhee. Also a great instructor, former Delta (GWOT era), and a totally different personality.

I like Vickers. I dig Shreck way more.

 

[policemedic]

I’ll take a beating for this, but if the department didn’t issue the firearm then the officers shouldn’t be allowed to carry the weapon.

Interesting.

Why do you feel that way?

 

[policemedic]

He claims it's hit rifle, department suppressor.

No tax stamp necessary.

 

[DA SWO]

Funny you say that. Part of my job as a paramedic for the Township I work was verifying that the PD med bags/AEDs were good to go, monthly. I'd have access with cops to their sector SUVs.

One cop I know had his rifle bag there, I asked what AR he had. It was a nice one, suppressed, department allows it.

I asked if he paid his tax stamp, his response, we don't need to pay that. I'm not sure if he's fucking around or if that's the case. If it is the case, it proves my point.

Department gun = no stamp.

 

[DA SWO]

Interesting.

Why do you feel that way?

Me, because it's a personal weapon that should get the NFA treatment.
Get the stamp, cary at work.

 

[Muppet]

Interesting.

Why do you feel that way?

Why do we as civilians have to beg/pay money to the government while LEO don't?

To me, this is why folks don't trust government.

 

[policemedic]

Individual officers aren’t exempt. A law enforcement agency i.e. the government is.

That said, there’s no logical or constitutional reason to restrict suppressors or anything else. And you should know, the overwhelming majority of law enforcement agencies do not use SBRs, SBS, suppressors, or (especially!) full auto/burst rifles.

 

[policemedic]

Why do we as civilians have to beg/pay money to the government while LEO don't?

To me, this is why folks don't trust government.

To answer your question directly, you (the electorate) voted these people in and didn’t fire them when they enacted things like the NFA and GCA. The electorate gets what it deserves.

 

[Kraut783]

I’ll take a beating for this, but if the department didn’t issue the firearm then the officers shouldn’t be allowed to carry the weapon.

I qual and can carry two pistols and one rifle that is personally owned and not issued by my department. Department issues a duty firearm, but other weapons are allowed for plainclothes/CID carry and off duty carry. It's pretty common.

But, not weapons that need a stamp for personal.

 

[policemedic]

I qual and can carry two pistols and one rifle that is personally owned and not issued by my department. Department issues a duty firearm, but other weapons are allowed for plainclothes/CID carry and off duty carry. It's pretty common.

But, not weapons that need a stamp for personal.

Basically same/same. For somewhere near half my career I carried personally owned pistols, rifle, and for a short while a personally owned suppressor.

There are very good arguments for this practice.

 

[Kraut783]

Why do we as civilians have to beg/pay money to the government while LEO don't?

To me, this is why folks don't trust government.

Military provides weapons that would be tax stamped for civilians...owned by govt, not individual soldier...same for LEO. Do you carry prescriptions drugs as a EMT/Paramedic? Drugs I can't get as a civilian...but you have access to use as a govt first responder.

 

[Muppet]

Fair enough but I don't agree with the part of government having the position to do something that civilians cannot/are forced to deal with. You know my positions with that, the older I get, the more my eyes are open.

That said, I'm not trying to sound anti cop, I'm not. I am anti government monopoly on things they do because they can.

In regards to electorate voting these bastards in, do you really think left or right matters anymore? They both do dirt and make unconstitutional gun laws based on the guise of public safety.

That's my opinion.

 

[The Quartermaster]

Funny you say that. Part of my job as a paramedic for the Township I work was verifying that the PD med bags/AEDs were good to go, monthly. I'd have access with cops to their sector SUVs.

One cop I know had his rifle bag there, I asked what AR he had. It was a nice one, suppressed, department allows it.

I asked if he paid his tax stamp, his response, we don't need to pay that. I'm not sure if he's fucking around or if that's the case. If it is the case, it proves my point.

Don't they get approved faster but still have to file some exemption for the stamp paperwork though? My friend in Payson Tribal for Tonto, uses his own SBR and his own can but he paid for it all stamps included.

 

[AWP]

Interesting.

Why do you feel that way?

For yourself and others who carry non-issued weapons. You regularly shoot them, how often do others? How often are rank-and-file officers shooting even their duty weapons?

The militarization of police has gone on for years now; Officers look like they are storming Fallujah. Killing dogs is enough of a thing it has become a meme. There are entire Youtube channels devoted to bodycams showing officers doing illegal shit. I can go on, but police aren't selected and trained very well. My wife worked with a former cop who was fired for his conduct. She met his FTO who stated the FTO tried to have the guy released/ fired, but the Sheriff wouldn't allow that. How many abject shitbags have remained on the job because of the union?

And those YT videos above? Absolutely filled with officers driving drunk and other offenses and then trying to get out of them by using their badge/ the brotherhood, practically begging to be released and getting angry when not. Hell, even when arrested they are treated differently than an average citizen: not handcuffed, allowed to retain their weapon, etc.

And this what we see, how deep does this problem run? How many LEOs on this forum have allowed another officer to get away with a crime?

So, no, I don't think officers should carry individually owned weapons. Their departments think so little of them they won't fund those weapons. I don't trust the rank-and-file to attain any degree of competency with those weapons. The liability has to be an issue as stated above.

At the end of the day, why are police buying their own kit? Funding? Okay...but that's a department problem. My dad was a union electrician. If the employer didn't provide tools, he and the others wouldn't work. Police have a union...why isn't there a work stoppage for inadequate equipment?

Entire police departments allowed kids to die rather than intervene and we're supposed to trust others to not do the same? To be well trained?

2 decades ago when I shot IPSC/ USPSA matches, we'd have local LEO's show up, shoot a match, and never return. The few who returned did because they wanted to better with their issued weapon. Some of us point blank asked those who returned why the others did not. Their response to a man?

The officers were embarrassed of their skill level.

Departments aren't training and equipping their officers. Officers aren't proficient in basic non-lethal skills like interacting with people. Why should they carry any weapon they want when they cannot or will not maintain even basic skills?

I am not anti-police, but for fuck's sake your career field needs an overhaul. You need more officers, more training, more funding, and leadership (including the union) who will flush turds rather than keep them on the payroll. You need more officers willing to challenge corruption even at the DUI level.

That's a lot to unpack, but that's my response.