Marine Raiders

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7point62

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I was a Raider fanatic as a child. They were disbanded by then but once I saw Gung Ho! with Randolf Scott, I was hooked. The Marines have owned me since then. My unit resurrected some Raider TTP with considerable success.
 
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7point62

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Technically the Raiders are still around.


That's true. With the MSOBs they've been resurrected...although the Raider Ethic has been a part of the Corps since WW2.

I think the Marines should get more credit than they do in the development of certain UW TTP that's been considered the "property" of Army SF/SOF. We were conducting FID/COIN/UW ops in Haiti, Santo Domingo and Nicaragua in the 1920's and Evans Carlson and Red Mike Edson--who would become famous Raider commanders--and Chesty Puller, too, all cut their teeth in the Banana wars.

The lessons learned back then were put to good use by the Combined Action Groups in Vietnam.
 

SR-25

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It didnt start with MSOB. MEU Boat Companies have carried on the Raider tradition for quite some time.
 

Teufel

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Technically the Raiders are still around.

I wouldn't say Raiders are still around. The Marine Corps has never liked having "elite" units and as a result the Raider Regiment became 4th Marines in WWII. We still see signs of their legacy everywhere in the Marine Corps. The closest thing we have to a raider battalion now are the 4 Reconnaissance Battalions. The raider lineage is the reason that the Recon Battalions are the only units in the Marine Corps authorized to have a skull in their official logo. A lot of the raider traditions are kept alive in the Reconnaissance community. Many of these traditions have been carried over to MARSOC because of the heavy 0321 influence in that community. Many infantry battalions used to maintain boat companies that modeled themselves in the raider tradition (the most famous I think is the Alpha 1/4 Raiders) but the OIF/OEF rotation has changed a lot of that. The only MEU that currently has a boat company is the 31st MEU. It's too bad really, I was a boat company guy as a Lieutenant and I loved it. It may seem to be the most realistic insertion means now a days but I think there is validity to maintaining the capability.
 

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SR-25

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The boat companies on MEUs are still designated as "Raiders" and the Amphibious Raid school in Coronado still uses the original Raider logo.
 

SR-25

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Teufel

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The boat companies on MEUs are still designated as "Raiders" and the Amphibious Raid school in Coronado still uses the original Raider logo.

The MEU boat companies are not designated "Raiders" they call themselves raiders. The Marine Corps has not officially designated anyone with the Marine Raiders name; the closest thing is when MSOB tried and big Marine Corps shot it down. By the way, Fox 2/7 didn't go by raiders when they were in Nowzad last year.
 

0699

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Interesting question.

I know the Army maintains lineages of units, so that unit "B" carries on the traditions of unit "A" (For example, I think the SF Regiment carries the lineage of the FSSF) and has a verified relationship. Does the Corps have anything like that?

I should know this, but...
 

SCCO_Marine

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Most of the Marines of Small Craft Co were fr/the Boat Co of the returning east coast MEU's BLT. We in turn provided the next MEU w/coxswains, then absorbed many of their Marines in the turn over.


Either way there's no tactical mission the WWII Raiders performed that isn't performed by the MEU(SOC)'s Boat Co.

The MEU(SOC)'s Boat Co. is trained & certified by the Special Operations Training Group to perform the mission of Clandestine Amphibious Raid.

Thats purposely by the design of the MEU's Special Operations Capable program creator CMC Gen Al Gray. He wanted a program that gave him the capability to slip a Co. of Marines behind enemy lines to disrupt Movement & Comm, & thats wht SOTG designed for him.


The Raiders were pioneers in that area, but Det-1 & the MSOCs taking the Raider name would've been symbolic only. The unit that most mirrors the capability set of the WWII Raiders is the MEU's Amphibous Raid Co.
 

Teufel

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Interesting question.

I know the Army maintains lineages of units, so that unit "B" carries on the traditions of unit "A" (For example, I think the SF Regiment carries the lineage of the FSSF) and has a verified relationship. Does the Corps have anything like that?

I should know this, but...

The only unit I know of that has done this is 4th Marines... when the four raider battalions were deactivated, they were re-designated as 4th Marines to carry out the lineage lost in the Philippines when the original regiment was destroyed. Other than that I know some units have done some name swapping: 1/9 turned into 2/1 in the 90s, 2/4 turned into 2/6 and 2/9 turned into 2/4, 3/9 turned into 3/4....and 9th Marines stood up recently. I am sure there are some more out there.

Either way there's no tactical mission the WWII Raiders performed that isn't performed by the MEU(SOC)'s Boat Co.

The MEU(SOC)'s Boat Co. is trained & certified by the Special Operations Training Group to perform the mission of Clandestine Amphibious Raid.

Thats purposely by the design of the MEU's Special Operations Capable program creator CMC Gen Al Gray. He wanted a program that gave him the capability to slip a Co. of Marines behind enemy lines to disrupt Movement & Comm, & thats wht SOTG designed for him.


The Raiders were pioneers in that area, but Det-1 & the MSOCs taking the Raider name would've been symbolic only. The unit that most mirrors the capability set of the WWII Raiders is the MEU's Amphibous Raid Co.

I agree with you there. The MEU boat companies perfectly mirror the capabilities of the WWII Raiders. The reason MARSOC was going to adopt the Raider name is because they maintain the spirit of the raiders. Marines had to try out for the raiders and pass a strenuous indoc to get in. There was also additional training they needed to conduct. This is the biggest difference between the raiders and the modern boat companies. (I was a boat company guy back in the MEU(SOC) days). DET-1 was Task Unit Raider by the way. The Raiders were created by direct order of the President to create an American equivalent to the British Commandos. Originally, the Raiders were going to be called commandos but the Marine Corps at the time didn't want to create a perceived "elite within an elite" which is the same reason HQMC doesn't want MARSOC to have a badge or a special name.
 

SCCO_Marine

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Marines had to try out for the raiders and pass a strenuous indoc to get in.

Yeah thats pretty much the difference btwn the Raiders & the MEU's Boat Co. is an indoc. But i think its balanced out b/c today's Inf. Marines go thru much more Small Unit Tactics training coming out of SOI.

Its almost 6mths of training when u combine the 13wks of BC w/the 10wks of ITB to be a basic Rifleman. (I know its currently 59 ITB training days now just unsure of the breakdown by wk). The WWII regular Infantry just went straight from BC to their Rifle Co. so they would have needed the extra training.

But like i said they were the pioneers of it, we're just all on their backs.
 

SR-25

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Actually the Raider tradition is alive and well, every boat company that goes through the EWTGPAC and SOTG Raid Course are Raiders...
 

Teufel

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Yeah thats pretty much the difference btwn the Raiders & the MEU's Boat Co. is an indoc. But i think its balanced out b/c today's Inf. Marines go thru much more Small Unit Tactics training coming out of SOI.

Its almost 6mths of training when u combine the 13wks of BC w/the 10wks of ITB to be a basic Rifleman. (I know its currently 59 ITB training days now just unsure of the breakdown by wk). The WWII regular Infantry just went straight from BC to their Rifle Co. so they would have needed the extra training.

But like i said they were the pioneers of it, we're just all on their backs.

AIT for the Raiders was Makin Island.
 

Teufel

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Actually the Raider tradition is alive and well, every boat company that goes through the EWTGPAC and SOTG Raid Course are Raiders...

The problem is that there is no continuity. They even shut down the 1st Marines boat house back in 2007. To use your company as an example, you guys will do the boat course this year and won't see a boat for another four years. Right now the only guy who has any real boat experience in your company (to my knowledge) is SSgt G and he is TAD to the wounded warrior battalion/EWTGPAC. Traditions can't survive if they start and stop like that.
 
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