National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (and now ICE)
- Thread starter Ooh-Rah
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@ All:
I was just making a joke that this site had a niche (mil/SOF) that has, like all message boards, turned into a political one. It's just the nature of the internet.
Man, I've recommended this place to tons of people over the years. I know a bunch who lurked, but not many who joined.
I think it's a combination of the site going offline for that period in 21-22, places like the reddit service subs getting more popular, and general info available through podcasts now.
I was just making a joke that this site had a niche (mil/SOF) that has, like all message boards, turned into a political one. It's just the nature of the internet.
Man, I've recommended this place to tons of people over the years. I know a bunch who lurked, but not many who joined.
I think it's a combination of the site going offline for that period in 21-22, places like the reddit service subs getting more popular, and general info available through podcasts now.
Failure404
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Before you get any ideas about me, I’m not a socialist. I also don't support illegals voting in any elections for obvious reasons, but is there any other evidence of massive voter fraud on a large enough scale to influence elections? Utah recently reviewed their voting records and only found 486 active unverified voters, due to lack of information, and only one confirmed non-citizen registered (who never voted and has since been removed). I’m not saying that represents the entire US, but Utah has a lot of immigrants. Personally, I think this is a boogeyman/scare tactic, but need to see more evidence.
(Also, where does this notion come from that immigrants from Central and South America will vote for socialism when they are very conservative and overwhelmingly voted for Trump in the last election? Especially the ones fleeing failed socialist projects…)
Biden’s administration was reportedly conflicted on Title 42. I suspect he couldn’t get his cabinet in line on it. The courts complicated things with legal challenges, as you mentioned. As an incumbent, Biden himself said he did not plan on repealing it and the data from CBP shows that he utilized it even more than Trump did. Title 42’s major challenge in the courts was that it was a pandemic measure—a pandemic which officially ended in 2023—so what justification remained to keep it? It was a good policy, but needed to be replaced with something permanent and not tied to COVID, imo.
What replaced Title 42? The previous laws (specifically Title 8) and the introduction of the CBP One app. Biden was actually highly criticized by the left and immigration advocacy groups because this new standard was more strict than Title 42 (harsher punishments for illegal crossings and you now needed an appointment through the app or you would automatically be turned away).
The CBP data just doesn’t support the claim that the borders were open under Biden. Expulsions, interior and border detentions, air flight removals, etc. all increased under Biden. He removed more people in total than Trump, yet the numbers were still increasing. Why? Immigration was already at a 21 year high before Biden was ever in office and the system could not handle the volume.
When I said (slightly in jest of Trump, who so far leads mainly through EO) that Biden was doing things the proper way by going through Congress, it’s because that is what is needed in order to change the system long term. Doing things like increasing the budget, the amount of BP agents, judges, detention centers, increasing the standard for asylum, etc., were all things that would have helped the system handle the increased load it was under.
People are always very quick to blame the other sides guy for problems that are usually caused by a multitude of factors unrelated to the actual politician, and I just think the data shows that immigration is one of those complicated problems. Why has volume increased over the last 21 years? What can we do to ensure our borders are secure and our immigration system is a well oiled machine that brings in talented, hard working people that align with the spirit and values of this country? It seems to me that Biden’s bill would have addressed many of those issues and Trump called an audible to stop it just so he could campaign on the issue.
I would argue that Trump wasn’t the only thing that changed. The methods and scale of deportation have also changed. Hiring standards and length of training have also decreased, which might be contributing to the current chaotic environment. I don’t think as many people would have nearly as much of a problem (see immigration under Obama, Biden) if legals and citizens were not getting caught in the crosshairs, if more care were being taken to follow the Constitution. I personally don’t know anyone who wants open borders, although I’m not that far left. People like me want secure borders and legal pathways that provide ample opportunity for others to come and contribute to the American project. We don’t want people being disappeared or for the administration to operate without oversight and accountability. If more care were being taken and less people were having their rights violated, I doubt that the number of people protesting Trump’s deportation efforts would be any more than the amount that criticized Obama/Biden. These ends don’t justify the means for me, personally.
Are you saying it’s AI? Not genuine? Written by a staffer?
This is the only part worth responding to; the rest has been gone over here so may times (and in real time) that all you need is the search function and an open mind- happy hunting.
You’re missing the key issue on the impact to voting.
The key issue isn’t voter fraud (it’s happening), it’s that all those immigrants waiting on their CBP one app to ping for their appointment are counted in the census. Illegals too. Every body, not every citizen. Census number in 2020 widely over represented in blue states, vastly underreported in red. Why?
Because that’s how apportionment for political representation is counted. Why are blue states the only ones with santctuary cities/states? Why are they all violently protecting populations of immigrants? Because it leads to seats in power.
It’s simple math. More people, more seats, and if you bring more people in they’ll vote for your party once you give them free everything.
Sweet post tho.
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Dammit. I was literally just logging in to delete that post, can’t now since you called me on it.
I was thinking about it this morning, and then did a little sleuthing, I see that he was appointed by Trump in 2024.
Unless I’m missing someone specific, Trump is not putting anyone into a post unless he is convinced that person will tow the company line.
So now I will say yes, I’m raising my hand thinking he actually wrote that. Or at least signed off on it.
Haha yeah bro wrote it HOPING the president saw it. Probably had staffers send it to him framed.
There is evidence of massive voter fraud in many states. You have to seek out the sources. Court cases shooting out all over the damn place. This is the POLICE and POLITICAL Protests thread.
Looks like you follow some MSN or left wing news sources. Like am, and Marauder posted, if you don't grasp the conversation around that nonsense bill it's most likely due to the following reasons:
1. You get most of your info from MSN/left leaning news sources, blogs etc. which purposely cloud up the issue with non-sequitur arguments to bog the conversation down. We were receiveing millions of migrants from S. America since the 80s. Nothing has fundamentally changed.
2. You aren't familiar with political games being played like the ones that bill represents (why is Ukraine and Israel funding smashed into a border bill????) CBP CAN REQUEST AN INCREASE OF FUNDING TO DEAL WITH UNFORSEEN CIRCUMSTANCES EVERY YEAR ON IT'S OWN, congress approves it anyhow.
3. You have an alternative agenda and are being obtuse.
We spent weeks arguing the finer points of that bill in the past. It's up to you to read through the immigration thread or bring your arguments there. That bill sucked...
Can't believe I am doing this.
Brother, we just talked about how we all to address conflicting viewpoints and try not to make this an echo chamber. Look at your boledd- are these shots at the ideas, or assumptions about the person?
@Failure404 is new, let's educate and see who's ideas are better. Maybe his turn out to be with a little sharpening.
Failure...
The Quartermaster
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We can talk like adults bro, you've expounded your positions without directly being hostile with words. People like this can cause growth in mutual understanding and respect. You've even educated and opened my mind a few times this way.@ All:
I was just making a joke that this site had a niche (mil/SOF) that has, like all message boards, turned into a political one. It's just the nature of the internet.
Man, I've recommended this place to tons of people over the years. I know a bunch who lurked, but not many who joined.
I think it's a combination of the site going offline for that period in 21-22, places like the reddit service subs getting more popular, and general info available through podcasts now.
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The Quartermaster
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I've been on some places or had to certain places where it was 6040 with the 60's belonging to their own echo chamber who took offense at the 40% not being lock, step, and heels. And because of that they were absolutely richard craniums. Get it to 50/50 and both sides will still act hostile with each other no matter what.
Some people don't want to discuss. They want to bend wills to theirs. This goes with both sides. What gets me to lose interest is the lack of wanting to problem solve and be the solution instead of trying to stir the pot and pushing people away.
However I get what you are saying. A decade ago my grandmother passed, I decided to fly down first and have my family fly down a few days later. I decided to take the shuttle to the airport. On that very shuttle at oh dark too early there were some very enthused people talking politics on the R side and were very loud about it.
Meanwhile here was I wanting them to shut up and next to me was an equally annoyed female whose side I didn't know, didn't care to know, but knew she was just as unhappy as I was and I was on their side. At 0300ish in the morning they all tried to solve the USA's problems in a shuttle, with outcomes that changed zero but it sure did piss off two of its occupants.
If she wasn't a Republican before she was definitely not one after that ride. And you know what? I can't blame her and I am an R that leans more Libertarian at times.
So what would you suggest we do in here? Stop being in a self contained shuttle annoying some of the "trapped" audiences?
Failure404
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You’re right, I have not consider it from that angle. Thank you for pointing that out. I will dig into that some more.
I mainly wanted to respond to a couple points from @BlackSmokeRisinG’s previous response. My point being that Biden faced challenging circumstances and his actions are often unfairly appraised, imo (I wouldn’t call the picture painted by the CBP data “open borders,” for example).
Understood. As stated, I plan to read those older discussions before responding in depth on the specifics of the border bill. Maybe my thoughts on it will even change by the time I go through all of that.
One thing I can promise you is that I always try to conduct myself in good faith. I value strong evidence and good arguments. I always try to live by the principles of skepticism and want to be challenged in my views. My favorite quote seems like the best way to sum up how I try to engage with my own ideas and beliefs: “If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not truth, it ought to be harmed” (J. Rueben Clark). That is why I’m here (aside from my larger aspirations): To learn and engage in good faith debate about issues that are deeply important to me in this moment, from people who can challenge me and point out potential flaws in my reasoning.
The Quartermaster
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ThunderHorse
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Was just about to post this. Remember, Antifa has a full Chain of Command and bank accounts. We know who is funding Antifa. And it seems that we know in part that some people in the MN government or at least the Governors former campaign are using their "community organizer" skills and putting them to work through mobilizing what are really attacks (disruptions) on FLEOs.
Be careful when parsing terms in this way. When people hyperbolically say, "Biden opened the borders!", it's easy to take the boilerplate Dem talking point of "Ughhh, no they aren't OPEN. There are GUARDS. And CHECKPOINTS." Mayorkas did this for years and it didn't work out well.
Instead, let me reframe.
Joe Biden directed Mayorks to stop enforcing settled law in the United States. Through the CBP app, immigrants that should have reported to ports of entry, declared asylum, and recieved an immediate hearing and background check were instead allowed to enter the country illegally with a promise to return for their hearing. The US GOV flew these immigrants to sanctuary cities and states, at the cost of the American taxpayer. The amount of those illegals ranges from 10-20M depending on which one you prefer; I will be gracious and say it's the low end. 10M people violated USC 8 sec 1325 and started taking American resources, and can be counted on the census.
Those 10M went into a queue for that hearing/check; either the admin was so inept that they didn't realize that the backlog would result in a complete overwhelming of the judicial branch being able to physically conduct those hearings in a timely manner, OR, that was exactly the plan (the underpinning here is hoping Trump doesn't win, and a broad amnesty program can be enacted giving citizenship to these 10M folks.). I am willing to accept incompetence vs malice here. Either one- non-background check immigrant who were apprehended at the border were allowed into the interior of the US, takiing resources from American citizens and having a real, detrimental impact to the way our government operates by using our rules and laws against itself.
So, no, Biden didn't "open the borders". But yes, the Biden administration most certainly set the legal conditions, complete with messaging from their podium and social media and their actions directing CBP and the CBP one app, and then fully supported the influx (the largest mass migration in history) of immigrants/asylum seekers into this country outside of the law.
You can test this theory by asking, "What new legislation did Trump do (or undid) to completely shut down the border crossings from Jan 2024 until now (the lowest in history in this country)?"
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I'm not sure where you're going with this because I suggested no such thing or anything for anyone to do.
Only added your bolded because poster brought up the same idea already a few times and received answers from a few members.
Your intent is good, your approach was being a big ole meanie head. lol
I agree with the last part. The bolded part... just FYI, he has been a member for over 10 years.
I REFUSE TO TAKE TRUE INPUT YOU LIB HE'S NEW TO MY LIVED EXPERIENCE. Cancelled.
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