National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (please review page 1)

[Locksteady]

You'll never get enough local applicants

Fortunately, the suggestion wasn't to limit police departments to local hires. The suggestion was that a shift towards policies that prioritize and incentivize local hires may be a step in the right direction towards correcting the unintended "us vs. them" issue that may manifest after Warrior-style training. Additionally, prioritizing or incentivizing local hiring isn't necessary if you already have a surplus of local applicants, and areas in which your claim is true is the specific reason I mentioned that strategy.

and not all will qualify.

As with most applicant pools.

Also don't forget that currently, "snitches get stitches" isn't just a saying; it's a culture. And someone local that becomes an officer, will probably not be trusted.

The existence of other complications associated with local residents policing their own districts doesn't nullify the rationale for encouraging people who relate to and identify with the community at large to do the actual policing as a first step to addressing the widening "us vs. them" mentality that skews so many LEOs so far away from Grossman's supposed intent with Warrior training.

 

[RackMaster]

We get a lot of local community people who hire on to the dept. Not sure what departments you have ever worked on, but to say it's a culture of ALL law enforcement in the US is just wrong.

I wasn't referring to the law enforcement culture. It's a community culture or now more of a youth culture.

 

[DA SWO]

Could you rotate cops out of high crime precincts for short periods of time?

 

[RackMaster]

Could you rotate cops out of high crime precincts for short periods of time?

That's an excellent idea.

 

[Rabid Badger]

How do we help Police than in regards to turning it off?

Sincerely great Q.

What you will NEVER hear the dispatcher say: "Domestic as 2411 Ash but don't worry about it, it's no big deal". "Wreck at the intersection of x and x but no big deal" 2 dead, 4yrs old and 5yrs old".

Like @ThunderHorse mentioned - The old guy recycling cardboard? That's how he buys his food and booze and has for years and he just wants to be left alone. That pigsticker in his belt you took for granted Rookie? You shouldn't have!

No day is a normal day for the Blue line. They have a hard time turning it off and on ~ and the second they turn if off, they don't go home.

Grace and Situational Awareness get them home everyday. Just my 2.

 

[Ranger Psych]

How do we help Police than in regards to turning it off?

You teach your kids how to present as a safe and compliant person when dealing with law enforcement.

It's that fucking simple. Hell, I may get with a deputy locally and "get stopped" specifically so I can get the kid the experience of just chill, it's not a problem to talk with the cops, right wrong or indifferent.

That way you don't heebee jeebee the cops when you get stopped and keep that meter swinging from "safe" into "threat" and get treated as such.

Please note:
https://dam.tmz.com/document/f6/o/2020/07/08/f67735b0ca9c4e55a8070fb50af753a6.pdf

George Floyd acted the fool, plain and simple. What needs to happen when you deal with LE as a suspect, is yes sir no sir complying near instantly sir. They're the ref, they're in charge. You can either do the fuck they say or get a penalty, or ejected from the fucking game for being stupid. Your choice.

 

[Devildoc]

Could you rotate cops out of high crime precincts for short periods of time?

The problem becomes that there's no continuity within that district to precinct or area. I know our city's department likes to keep the same cops in the same districts so the community gets to know them.

But I see the value of rotating them out of the combat zone so to speak.

 

[Ranger Psych]

The problem becomes that there's no continuity within that district to precinct or area. I know our city's department likes to keep the same cops in the same districts so the community gets to know them.

But I see the value of rotating them out of the combat zone so to speak.

You keep continuity with the leadership. Establish a "tour time" for assignment to the busiest areas (year or two or whatever) as a minimum time to be there, and give them prioritized station of choice following minimum tour. Keep an eye on them and let them do what they can take, and shift them out either on their own request or when they need it but don't want to "puss out".

 

[Devildoc]

You keep continuity with the leadership. Establish a "tour time" for assignment to the busiest areas (year or two or whatever) as a minimum time to be there, and give them prioritized station of choice following minimum tour. Keep an eye on them and let them do what they can take, and shift them out either on their own request or when they need it but don't want to "puss out".

I'm down with that, but then I've never been assigned to patrol or anything like that, I was just on the tactical team.

 

[Kraut783]

Not realistic.....you already pull officers from surrounding beats for the heavy call load all the time....there is no "do this" to fix this, every department is different and has to figure this out from within every department.

It's like somebody from a command staff, who has never been in a ranger regiment, writing doctrine for the 75th.

 

[RustyShackleford]

The problem becomes that there's no continuity within that district to precinct or area. I know our city's department likes to keep the same cops in the same districts so the community gets to know them.

But I see the value of rotating them out of the combat zone so to speak.

And that is part of community policing or whatever they call it. You rotate guys out and staff it with guys who aren’t familiar, you have dudes who are on edge, treating everyone like a suspect. It’s not that different than handing off battlespace to a new unit.

The next time the FBI, DEA, or local drug task force do a large scale operation, watch the blotter first that area in the weeks following. The fight for power is phenomenal. There is never a plan in place to address the power vacuum or handle the petty crime that the local crew took care of.

I won’t go into Grossman other than saying I’m not fan. He’s in it for the money peddling his BS to anyone who will pay. Go to any cop convention where he’s speaking and you see a plethora of overweight cops wearing sheepdog or gruntstyle shirts.

As for fixing things, leaders in these agencies need to step up. LE needs to be part of the conversation, not excluded from it. How do you turn it off? Training + experience + maturity. Years ago I sat through a presentation by one of our chiefs who addressed some of this and I recognized a lot of the problems he talked about in myself. One of his solutions: decompress after work. Take 5/10/15 minutes or more when you get home. Take off the gun and the badge, change clothes, get that stink off you. Don’t bring the job home. Don’t identify as a cop. It’s what you do, not what you are. Have non LE related hobbies. Have friends who aren’t cops. I took a lot of that stuff to heart and it made me better at home and better at work.

I’m way different now than I was 15 years ago. For better or worse, the adrenaline dump isn’t there anymore, at least not like it used to be. Learn to treat people like humans. I’ve fought to get handcuffs on dudes an had them apologize to me after the fact. Why? Because I handled business and when it was over it was over. Hell, we hooked up a dude a few hrs ago who had been on the run for a couple years for a laundry list of crimes. After he asked if he could call his girl. The dudes deferred to me and I said yep. Why? Why not? Who does it hurt to let a dude make a call to family or have a smoke, or have a drink of cold water on a hot ass day? No one. You can be a dick, or not. You’re the one who has to live with yourself and look at yourself in the mirror every morning.

 

[ThunderHorse]

They cut the budget, so why stop the guys from leaving.

NYPD limits retirement applications amid 400 percent surge this week

 

[Ranger Psych]

Because they want to furlough without paying retirement.

 

[Kraut783]

They cut the budget, so why stop the guys from leaving.

NYPD limits retirement applications amid 400 percent surge this week

" LE needs to be part of the conversation, not excluded from it. How do you turn it off? Training + experience + maturity." Good statement!

You lose the experience and maturity from the older officers retiring....plus this includes line supervisors, middle management...etc.

 

[DA SWO]

They cut the budget, so why stop the guys from leaving.

NYPD limits retirement applications amid 400 percent surge this week

Guys with 20 plus years are going to be ROAD warriors. They will keep submitting retirement applications until they get approved.

 

[Blizzard]

This is a very interesting report:

Transcripts Show What Officer Derek Chauvin Said To George Floyd: 'It Takes A Heck Of A Lot Of Oxygen To Talk'

Running on the assumption the details in
this report are true, it really poses a problem to any murder charges. If Chauvin believed Floyd was fine because he was talking, it points much more to a training issue.

The release of full body cam footage will be very interesting in filling the gaps of what occurred between the footage we saw outside the market and the footage showing Floyd's death, especially if he was indeed thrashing around and harming himself in the squad.

 

[SaintKP]

This is a very interesting report:

Transcripts Show What Officer Derek Chauvin Said To George Floyd: 'It Takes A Heck Of A Lot Of Oxygen To Talk'

Running on the assumption the details in
this report are true, it really poses a problem to any murder charges. If Chauvin believed Floyd was fine because he was talking, it points much more to a training issue.

The release of full body cam footage will be very interesting in filling the gaps of what occurred between the footage we saw outside the market and the footage showing Floyd's death, especially if he was indeed thrashing around and harming himself in the squad.

Playing devils advocate, couldn't the prosecutor argue that Chauvin was being needlessly Sadistic to a complying individual while Floyd was complaining that he couldn't breathe?

 

[Blizzard]

Playing devils advocate, couldn't the prosecutor argue that Chauvin was being needlessly Sadistic to a complying individual while Floyd was complaining that he couldn't breathe?

A question that always remained outstanding to me was, how did Floyd end up on the pavement outside the squad? It's not answered in any video we've seen so far. In the video outside the market, Floyd generally appears cooperative. However, the transcript indicates he was thrashing about and harming himself inside the squad, which explains why he was pulled out and restrained.

A prosecutor can argue many things, but if the items reported are true, it makes it awfully difficult to argue murder. People tell police officers all kinds of things when they're being detained, including they can't breathe. So, I don't know an argument indicating he was being "sadistic" holds any weight. To me, the "better" argument is that he was potentially negligent in continuing to apply pressure once Floyd lost consciousness, but that's more appropriate to manslaughter as opposed to murder. And even then, the counter may be that he wasn't knowingly negligent if that'show he was trained and there were other mitigating factors.

Regardless, I think this is very important information in shaping the argument.

 

[Rabid Badger]

One of his solutions: decompress after work. Take 5/10/15 minutes or more when you get home. Take off the gun and the badge, change clothes, get that stink off you. Don’t bring the job home. Don’t identify as a cop. It’s what you do, not what you are. Have non LE related hobbies. Have friends who aren’t cops. I took a lot of that stuff to heart and it made me better at home and better at work.

I’m way different now than I was 15 years ago. For better or worse, the adrenaline dump isn’t there anymore, at least not like it used to be. Learn to treat people like humans. ---- Who does it hurt to let a dude make a call to family or have a smoke, or have a drink of cold water on a hot ass day? No one. You can be a dick, or not. You’re the one who has to live with yourself and look at yourself in the mirror every morning.

When Rusty writes, read it all and take it to heart - ie, long and storied SOF and LEA career{s}
IMHO, the point of the underlined is to take all of the different influences of daily life you can now and be that better person, and the faster the better. As an LEO, stop and buy that lemonade from that little girls lemonade stand, stop and play football or basketball with that kiddo playing sports...whatever it may be.

Hell, when I wrote that the Question was "sincerely a good question", that answer, subliminally, subconsciously, applies to ALL OF US in some ways. We all need to treat each other better.

 

[AWP]

Let's say the officers were 100% in the right from a legal perspective. They walk.

You think the riots are now? Buckle up.