National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (please review page 1)

Ranger Psych said:
You keep continuity with the leadership. Establish a "tour time" for assignment to the busiest areas (year or two or whatever) as a minimum time to be there, and give them prioritized station of choice following minimum tour. Keep an eye on them and let them do what they can take, and shift them out either on their own request or when they need it but don't want to "puss out".
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I'm down with that, but then I've never been assigned to patrol or anything like that, I was just on the tactical team.
 
Not realistic.....you already pull officers from surrounding beats for the heavy call load all the time....there is no "do this" to fix this, every department is different and has to figure this out from within every department.

It's like somebody from a command staff, who has never been in a ranger regiment, writing doctrine for the 75th.
 
Devildoc said:
The problem becomes that there's no continuity within that district to precinct or area. I know our city's department likes to keep the same cops in the same districts so the community gets to know them.

But I see the value of rotating them out of the combat zone so to speak.
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And that is part of community policing or whatever they call it. You rotate guys out and staff it with guys who aren’t familiar, you have dudes who are on edge, treating everyone like a suspect. It’s not that different than handing off battlespace to a new unit.

The next time the FBI, DEA, or local drug task force do a large scale operation, watch the blotter first that area in the weeks following. The fight for power is phenomenal. There is never a plan in place to address the power vacuum or handle the petty crime that the local crew took care of.

I won’t go into Grossman other than saying I’m not fan. He’s in it for the money peddling his BS to anyone who will pay. Go to any cop convention where he’s speaking and you see a plethora of overweight cops wearing sheepdog or gruntstyle shirts.

As for fixing things, leaders in these agencies need to step up. LE needs to be part of the conversation, not excluded from it. How do you turn it off? Training + experience + maturity. Years ago I sat through a presentation by one of our chiefs who addressed some of this and I recognized a lot of the problems he talked about in myself. One of his solutions: decompress after work. Take 5/10/15 minutes or more when you get home. Take off the gun and the badge, change clothes, get that stink off you. Don’t bring the job home. Don’t identify as a cop. It’s what you do, not what you are. Have non LE related hobbies. Have friends who aren’t cops. I took a lot of that stuff to heart and it made me better at home and better at work.

I’m way different now than I was 15 years ago. For better or worse, the adrenaline dump isn’t there anymore, at least not like it used to be. Learn to treat people like humans. I’ve fought to get handcuffs on dudes an had them apologize to me after the fact. Why? Because I handled business and when it was over it was over. Hell, we hooked up a dude a few hrs ago who had been on the run for a couple years for a laundry list of crimes. After he asked if he could call his girl. The dudes deferred to me and I said yep. Why? Why not? Who does it hurt to let a dude make a call to family or have a smoke, or have a drink of cold water on a hot ass day? No one. You can be a dick, or not. You’re the one who has to live with yourself and look at yourself in the mirror every morning.
 
This is a very interesting report:

Transcripts Show What Officer Derek Chauvin Said To George Floyd: 'It Takes A Heck Of A Lot Of Oxygen To Talk'

Running on the assumption the details in
this report are true, it really poses a problem to any murder charges. If Chauvin believed Floyd was fine because he was talking, it points much more to a training issue.

The release of full body cam footage will be very interesting in filling the gaps of what occurred between the footage we saw outside the market and the footage showing Floyd's death, especially if he was indeed thrashing around and harming himself in the squad.
 
Blizzard said:
This is a very interesting report:

Transcripts Show What Officer Derek Chauvin Said To George Floyd: 'It Takes A Heck Of A Lot Of Oxygen To Talk'

Running on the assumption the details in
this report are true, it really poses a problem to any murder charges. If Chauvin believed Floyd was fine because he was talking, it points much more to a training issue.

The release of full body cam footage will be very interesting in filling the gaps of what occurred between the footage we saw outside the market and the footage showing Floyd's death, especially if he was indeed thrashing around and harming himself in the squad.
Click to expand...


Playing devils advocate, couldn't the prosecutor argue that Chauvin was being needlessly Sadistic to a complying individual while Floyd was complaining that he couldn't breathe?
 
SaintKP said:
Playing devils advocate, couldn't the prosecutor argue that Chauvin was being needlessly Sadistic to a complying individual while Floyd was complaining that he couldn't breathe?
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A question that always remained outstanding to me was, how did Floyd end up on the pavement outside the squad? It's not answered in any video we've seen so far. In the video outside the market, Floyd generally appears cooperative. However, the transcript indicates he was thrashing about and harming himself inside the squad, which explains why he was pulled out and restrained.

A prosecutor can argue many things, but if the items reported are true, it makes it awfully difficult to argue murder. People tell police officers all kinds of things when they're being detained, including they can't breathe. So, I don't know an argument indicating he was being "sadistic" holds any weight. To me, the "better" argument is that he was potentially negligent in continuing to apply pressure once Floyd lost consciousness, but that's more appropriate to manslaughter as opposed to murder. And even then, the counter may be that he wasn't knowingly negligent if that'show he was trained and there were other mitigating factors.

Regardless, I think this is very important information in shaping the argument.
 
RustyShackleford said:
One of his solutions: decompress after work. Take 5/10/15 minutes or more when you get home. Take off the gun and the badge, change clothes, get that stink off you. Don’t bring the job home. Don’t identify as a cop. It’s what you do, not what you are. Have non LE related hobbies. Have friends who aren’t cops. I took a lot of that stuff to heart and it made me better at home and better at work.

I’m way different now than I was 15 years ago. For better or worse, the adrenaline dump isn’t there anymore, at least not like it used to be. Learn to treat people like humans. ---- Who does it hurt to let a dude make a call to family or have a smoke, or have a drink of cold water on a hot ass day? No one. You can be a dick, or not. You’re the one who has to live with yourself and look at yourself in the mirror every morning.
Click to expand...

When Rusty writes, read it all and take it to heart - ie, long and storied SOF and LEA career{s}
IMHO, the point of the underlined is to take all of the different influences of daily life you can now and be that better person, and the faster the better. As an LEO, stop and buy that lemonade from that little girls lemonade stand, stop and play football or basketball with that kiddo playing sports...whatever it may be.

Hell, when I wrote that the Question was "sincerely a good question", that answer, subliminally, subconsciously, applies to ALL OF US in some ways. We all need to treat each other better.
 
AWP said:
Let's say the officers were 100% in the right from a legal perspective. They walk.

You think the riots are now? Buckle up.
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There was a guy recently on JRE thats been linked here pretty recently that touches on this. In the name of Justice someone needs to go to jail, but in the name of the law do the officers fit that bill without a shadow of a doubt?

Not to mention if it turns out that these guys walk due to them not having technically broken the law, is that what is best for our Nation as a whole?


ETA: here's the guy talking about it, all in all probably the best JRE podcast to come out in a while

 
AWP said:
Let's say the officers were 100% in the right from a legal perspective. They walk.

You think the riots are now? Buckle up.
Click to expand...
Agree 100%. It seems to be a real possibility.

Here's the other thing, there is already a contingency in place for this. Remember, the MN AG, with no experience (maybe not even a valid law license) took the lead on this from the county prosecutor. The AG is a complete political activist. If he loses, he gets to claim "the system" is rigged against black people.."see, the entire system must be scrapped". And we'll sit back and watch things burn again.

This rush to judgement is a real problem in society, and we're all guilty of it. We see a short clip or two of an incident, a bunch of officials make statements, and we convict people before they've even gone to trial.

George Floyd did not deserve to die no matter how you slice it. But holy shit, based on a few things we've seen (autopsy, body cam transcripts, dispatch transcripts/statements) going for a murder charge against all 4 officers doesn't seem to fit. I was skeptical before, even moreso now. These facts are not going to be popular in many circles and now, with a gag order in place, who knows what else is being presented. Crazy stuff.
 
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Cookie_ said:
Cool, Chauvin thought "can't choke if you talk".

How about the 4ish minutes after Floyd passes out?

Because going off the "talking=breathing" assumption, not talking is a problem, right?
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It's a more than a fair question, although I don't think he was out for 4 min. Nonetheless, that actually is the real question...and does that amount to negligence or something more intentional? If you think it's something.more, how do you prove it? It may be a real challenge.
 
I certainly don’t envy whoever ends up on the jury for this trial.
AWP said:
Let's say the officers were 100% in the right from a legal perspective. They walk.

You think the riots are now? Buckle up.
Click to expand...

Especially if this ^ is the case.

Bret Weinstein touched on that in the JRE podcast. It seems like it will be incredibly difficult to get an impartial jury, given the knowledge that a not-guilty verdict (whether correct or not), will result in mass rioting (and almost certainly more deaths).
 
Rabid Badger said:
When Rusty writes, read it all and take it to heart - ie, long and storied SOF and LEA career{s}
IMHO, the point of the underlined is to take all of the different influences of daily life you can now and be that better person, and the faster the better. As an LEO, stop and buy that lemonade from that little girls lemonade stand, stop and play football or basketball with that kiddo playing sports...whatever it may be.

Hell, when I wrote that the Question was "sincerely a good question", that answer, subliminally, subconsciously, applies to ALL OF US in some ways. We all need to treat each other better.
Click to expand...

Thanks brother. I don’t know about long and storied, but it’s been a good ride so far.
 

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