National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (please review page 1)

Judge ruled probable cause do not exist for and dismissed the 3rd Degree Murder charge against Chauvin this morning. No additional details behind the decision were included in this article:
Judge dismisses 3rd-degree murder charge against Derek Chauvin, other charges remain

Here is the statute for the 3rd Degree requirement:
Sec. 609.195 MN Statutes

The decision is notable because 3rd degree charge is what a former Minneapolis officer was convicted of in a wrongful shooting of Justine Damond a few years ago. To me, while the 2nd degree murder charge still stands, really, only the manslaughter charge is viable.

Judge Cahill issued a 107 page order this morning. When I find a good breakdown, I'll share.
 
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So the Pennsylvania Governor is another one of those "mostly peaceful" types.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1321231946702270466

For context if you didn't read anything or see the video.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1320918523070337026

What de-escalation are they supposed to do here? They retreat, concede territory, and he continues to not follow orders, he then starts walking straight at the officer with the knife in his hand.

That's a clean shoot.

Background? Violent felon.

Action News Investigation: Who was Walter Wallace Jr., the man shot by Philadelphia police?
 
ThunderHorse said:
So the Pennsylvania Governor is another one of those "mostly peaceful" types.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1321231946702270466

For context if you didn't read anything or see the video.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1320918523070337026

What de-escalation are they supposed to do here? They retreat, concede territory, and he continues to not follow orders, he then starts walking straight at the officer with the knife in his hand.

That's a clean shoot.

Background? Violent felon.

Action News Investigation: Who was Walter Wallace Jr., the man shot by Philadelphia police?
Click to expand...
They obviously mishandled it. Here is the new approved way of confronting a violent individual, please note the professionalism.
 
As we continue to see with these "protests", it's become incredibly clear there isn't any police shooting involving a black person that these "activists" would ever find acceptable.

As has been stated here in numerous posts, facts no longer matter. Logic, reason, and personal accountability are not factors either.
 
ThunderHorse said:
What de-escalation are they supposed to do here? They retreat, concede territory, and he continues to not follow orders, he then starts walking straight at the officer with the knife in his hand.
Click to expand...
The obvious question for me was why didn't either officer on site even attempt using any non-lethal incapacitating tools like Tasers first in the lead-up to his charge while the cars still occluded his path?

The answer, it turns out, wasn't "we couldn't take the chance with this violent knife-wielding felon":
[Police Commissioner] Outlaw has said the officers involved in the shooting did not have Tasers, which deliver an electric shock that temporarily stuns the target.

Approximately a third of the police force of 2,301 officers have completed proper training to carry Tasers and are required to carry them on duty, according to The Philadelphia Inquirer.
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A problem that increased and targeted funding would help resolve, and the two officers cannot be blamed for not first using what they weren't even issued.

Fortunately...
Philadelphia legislators pledged to boost police department funding to ensure every officer is equipped with a Taser following the fatal police shooting of a Black man this week.

On Wednesday, Council President Darrell Clarke committed to immediately transferring as much as $9.5 million for the purchase of the non-lethal weapons, although the exact amount needed to outfit the entire force with Tasers remained unclear.

“If the police say we need some additional money to accelerate the purchase of Tasers, that’s a simple ask,” Clarke said while flanked by a handful of members of City Council outside City Hall.
Click to expand...
A great example for other cities to follow.

City Council looks to boost police funding to purchase Tasers
 
Locksteady said:
The obvious question for me was why didn't either officer on site even attempt using any non-lethal incapacitating tools like Tasers first in the lead-up to his charge while the cars still occluded his path?
Click to expand...

Why is that an obvious question? Have you ever attempted to disarm a knife-wielding attacker using non-lethal means?

By the way, the Taser issue is a red herring.
 
policemedic said:
Why is that an obvious question?
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Do you mean, why is that an obvious question for me? If so, that is because I would expect non-lethal incapacitating measures to be sought out and applied in lieu of applying lethal measures, when possible and feasible.
policemedic said:
Have you ever attempted to disarm a knife-wielding attacker using non-lethal means?
Click to expand...
Yes.
policemedic said:
By the way, the Taser issue is a red herring.
Click to expand...
It's not evident the Philadelphia Police Department feels the same.
 
Locksteady said:
Do you mean, why is that an obvious question for me? If so, that is because I would expect non-lethal incapacitating measures to be sought out and applied in lieu of applying lethal measures, when possible and feasible.

Yes.

It's not evident the Philadelphia Police Department feels the same.
Click to expand...

I agree that less-lethal should be used when appropriate. This was not one of those instances.

If you’ve been attacked with a knife—for real, not training–and successfully disarmed the bad guy without getting cut yourself, you’re among very few who have done so. I’ve trained in Filipino martial arts since I was 13, and the take away from knife defense is expect to get cut. I am not paid enough to get cut. Police officers are not expected to take unreasonable risks, and I would never advise one of my officers to attempt a disarm except in extremis.

I will say it again for clarity. The Taser issue is a red herring, and any responses on Tasers from PPD brass that indicate otherwise are geared towards public relations.
 
Thanks for your experienced feedback and response.
policemedic said:
I agree that less-lethal should be used when appropriate. This was not one of those instances.
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I'm not sure if that is a consensus conclusion, nor that at no point prior to the last-minute rush that a Taser would have been inappropriate while Wallace was repeatedly ignoring their orders to drop the knife.

Since no attempt occurred, the 'obvious' question for me as a non-LEO instead of assuming anything was to ask, "Why didn't they attempt non-lethal force first?"

I haven't heard anything from the officers involved, but the request from the Philadelphia Police Department for funding for Tasers and training doesn't suggest to me that they are committed to the idea that there was no point where non-lethal tools like Tasers were appropriate in that scenario.
policemedic said:
If you’ve been attacked with a knife—for real, not training–and successfully disarmed the bad guy without getting cut yourself, you’re among very few who have done so.
Click to expand...
At no point was I successful in disarming the knife.
policemedic said:
I’ve trained in Filipino martial arts since I was 13, and the take away from knife defense is expect to get cut.
Click to expand...
Ah, so they probably started you on weapons early aside from the more traditional route. Yes, ideally on the outer limbs as an expected 'take' in the process of disarming or disabling them. Rarely works as smoothly 'off-set'.
policemedic said:
I am not paid enough to get cut. Police officers are not expected to take unreasonable risks, and I would never advise one of my officers to attempt a disarm except in extremis.
Click to expand...
I have nothing but agreement here.
policemedic said:
I will say it again for clarity. The Taser issue is a red herring, and any responses on Tasers from PPD brass that indicate otherwise are geared towards public relations.
Click to expand...
I see, and that makes sense that it could be the case.

However, the fact that they've been working on trying to fill the Department with Tasers and training for non-lethal intervention methods for at least a decade would indicate that this is less of a reactive red herring PR tactic and more like the crescendo of a several-years-long effort to resolve an ongoing problem that now is actually being taken seriously and corrected with funding thanks to the media magnitude of the shooting.

There is no reason that 2/3 of a responding police force should remain unequipped with non-lethal alternatives of incapacitation, and I see only positives from procuring funding for the Philadelphia PD to outfit its force with non-lethal response options.
 
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