policemedic
Verified SWAT
National Protest and 'disband the cops' discussion (please review page 1)
- Thread starter Ooh-Rah
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JedisonsDad
Verified SOF
So the guy allegedly just stabbed someone. He was clearly mobile. Motioned to throw the knife. And family said he “recently lost his legs in a prior altercation with police”.
Sucks that someone lost their life, but if he hadn’t stabbed someone, had a knife, ran from the police, followed orders, he wouldn’t be in this situation.
Sucks that someone lost their life, but if he hadn’t stabbed someone, had a knife, ran from the police, followed orders, he wouldn’t be in this situation.
Have to agree on this one.
Sometimes folks bring it on themselves.
My apologies, I should have put some context to my post. I agree that it is very likely a good shoot based on the description in the article. It's the optics and how it affects the narrative that I was sighing about. The people screaming about defunding the police don't care whether it was a good shoot or not, all they care about is 2 cops shot and killed a dude with "no legs" and the race of the dead guy. Watch and wait, this one will blow up as soon as the last one starts to slow down and gets into the media cycle.
policemedic
Verified SWAT
Some places make it work better than others, but it’s always a bad idea to use the FF/paramedic model.
In your city’s case, it forces people who want to fight fire to become paramedics, and people who want to be paramedics to learn to be firefighters. Neither group is going to do the job they don’t like well. There is a small subgroup that likes both jobs, but those guys are rare.
Even assuming everyone likes being dual role, skill degradation becomes a problem. The larger the number of paramedics, the fewer procedures each will perform. Clinical abilities become diluted rapidly.
I always say it’s the equivalent of requiring someone to be an accountant before they can get hired as a baker.
I’m not (totally) opposed to fire-based EMS but I do think paramedics should be paramedics and firefighters should fight fire.
The guy’s on stumps. He’s not going to the next county. He’s not attacking the cops, he’s retreating. On stumps. I’m sorry, but knife or not, if I was a cop I’d either bop him on the head or tase him.
Uvalde made me sour on hyper-risk averse cops. Have some fucking balls. When somebody’s shooting kids, get the fuck in there and kill the fucker. When a guy on stumps is “running” away from you—even if he has a knife—try non lethal a few times before you pump 8 rounds into him.
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Lemonade out of lemons, guys.
Ren and Stumpy
What falls from chairs,
and can't use the stairs,
or even clear a speedbump?
Uses a knife to attack,
gets shot in the back,
It's stump, stump, stump!
(I'll just take your low opinion of me and mosey to another thread...)
Ren and Stumpy
What falls from chairs,
and can't use the stairs,
or even clear a speedbump?
Uses a knife to attack,
gets shot in the back,
It's stump, stump, stump!
(I'll just take your low opinion of me and mosey to another thread...)
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Wowzer…now there is one that I might find myself wanting to join the protesters on. Holy shit.
JedisonsDad
Verified SOF
Two unsuccessful tase attempts were administered.
Hey, I get it. The guy's a dirtbag. No tears from me. And if he turns around and comes at you with the blade, go nuts, blow his fucking head off. But Stumpy is stumpin away, headin for the next crack in the sidewalk and if you suck it up and run forward and smack him good with that cold steel collapsible baton, he's down and you spare your city the threat of riots.
My point is, being a cop is a risky job. You accept that when you take the oath. But if you're so risk averse you're going to just gun down every threat--even if it's running away--then you shouldn't be a cop. Have the balls to take a few risks.
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I couldn't agree with this more.
This situation with stumpy reminds me of the one in AZ(?) a few years back.
Dude In a motorized wheelchair stole something from a store and was riding around with a knife.
Cop shot him in the back (with civilians in the line of fire) because the knife was a deadly weapon.
Like fuck dude, put a stick in his tires or tip his wheelchair over first. Dude doesn't exactly have the mobility advantage.
JedisonsDad
Verified SOF
To me, it’s a no win for the police force.
If they go hands on, they risk being stabbed, and there is the potential for a situation to come up where the guy cries “police brutality” or “I can’t breathe” and the city riots.
If they go with baton, they are in stabbing distance and they risk the headline of “Police use excessive force after striking crippled man with baton” and the city riots.
If they shoot the guy, they don’t risk getting stabbed, and the city riots.
I’ve always briefed most likely and most lethal courses of action. If the most likely is across the same, mitigate the most lethal.
I went hands on knowing an inmate (or 2) had a knife probably about a dozen times while I was in the prison, and about an equal number of times not sure if they had a weapon or not.
I'm not saying I'm braver or more badass than any cop is, but when basically all training revolves around utilizing the gun, that's what they'll default to.
I can almost guarantee that, unless they stomped dude out like they were Memphis PD, there wouldn't be national level media on this right now.
We’re soldiers. We have to do risky stuff. We know that going in. Cops need to know that, too. Sometimes you have to expose yourself to danger to get the job done. Just like a firefight. Sometimes you have to expose yourself in order to get your rounds on target. Chances have to be taken. You suck it up because it goes with the job.
@JedisonsDad I get what you’re saying, sir. It’s a matter of interpretation. I just think the cops in this situation should’ve closed in and take the risk of a knife wound.
@JedisonsDad I get what you’re saying, sir. It’s a matter of interpretation. I just think the cops in this situation should’ve closed in and take the risk of a knife wound.
Kraut783
SOF Support
"My point is, being a cop is a risky job. You accept that when you take the oath. But if you're so risk averse you're going to just gun down every threat--even if it's running away--then you shouldn't be a cop. Have the balls to take a few risks."
This is so true.....the new "generation" are very quick to go guns....to the point we are having to train back to de-escalation...freaking talking to people....you old timers will remember the training "Verbal Judo". It seems like no one goes hands on anymore....or talks the situation down.
I'm generalizing of course....but, it seems truer overall. For example, I don't know how many times I had responded to a business alarm, arrive and see glass down and go in. Now, it's pull back, surround, slow search....sure, it's safer, but you can't do that for every burglary call.
Sorry, rant over.
This is so true.....the new "generation" are very quick to go guns....to the point we are having to train back to de-escalation...freaking talking to people....you old timers will remember the training "Verbal Judo". It seems like no one goes hands on anymore....or talks the situation down.
I'm generalizing of course....but, it seems truer overall. For example, I don't know how many times I had responded to a business alarm, arrive and see glass down and go in. Now, it's pull back, surround, slow search....sure, it's safer, but you can't do that for every burglary call.
Sorry, rant over.
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I have lost track of the times I have referenced this movie over the past few years.
policemedic
Verified SWAT
Let me first say I have not seen the video of the wheelchair dude.
That said, this falls into the category of what we call ‘lawful but awful’.
I’m OK with the police killing anyone who needs killing. I’m not OK with using a legal technicality to justify lethal force when other options were available.
On another note, this is why every officer should have access to less than lethal tools like 40mm launchers with impact rounds or beanbag shotguns.
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