New .45 on it way but which one????

[08steeda]

Buy a damn Glock and use the rest of the money to buy ammo

Sorry - I am a GLOCK Hater!!!! Can't stand the damn things! I hate that trigger/safety clunky thing!!! Plus they are damn ugly!!!

 

[7point62]

All you will ever need in a 45.

 

[The91Bravo]

I have the Kimber Pro Raptor II. The only complaint I have is that is has major problems digesting hollow points with larger diameter mouths (the hollow part of the HP) I will get 3-4 out of 100 that Fail to Feed. They simply get jammed on the feed ramp. When I changed to a smaller mouth, the malfunctions stopped.

Other than that, it goes bang when I pull the little curved part, and makes neat little holes in the paper/jug/silouette right where I am pointing at. It has overtaken my HK USP as my primary off duty weapon.

just my .02

Whatever you get.... there better be some good gun porn on this thread when you do get it.

 

[SAWMAN]

Buy a damn Glock and use the rest of the money to buy ammo

I was thinking that same exact thought, but I was didn't want to rain on anybody's parade. Guys like the various guns. They're nice, so I totally get it.

However, for me, after all I've seen and done, I have to admit the ugly plastic gun runs amazingly well straight out of the box....and it always will. I've abused those things like you wouldn't believe. Simple, accurate, reliable, AND....(drum role, please................................................................................a fraction of the price of the other fancy guns. Which, just like you pointed out, leaves you a LOT more money for ammo.

In the end, only the buyer knows what he's REALLY after. If you want an attractive gun with a lot of effort and quality workmanship done to it, there are many to choose from. However, in a fight, they're no better than the Glock. And in many cases, they're much less reliable than the Glock, due to their tight tolerances, etc.

If anyone doubts me, take a typical fancy race gun, throw it down in the sand, bury it completely, take it out, rack the slide back and attempt to fire. Click......
Do that same thing with the Glock, and BOOM! There's the real beauty of the Glock. Cuz Lord knows it's nothing to look at... Black plastic. Still, to me it's beautiful, cuz I'm just worried about max reliability.

My 2 cents.

 

[The91Bravo]

EDIT TO ADD:

Also, IMHO you can never go wrong with a 1911. Even if you decided to build one yourself. If you get a quality slide and frame, you can trick it out as much as your budget allows.

And if you ever have something break 1911 parts are everywhere. You wear out a spring.. go to Wolff, you need a sear, check Brownells. They are the eternal epitome of the word 'semi auto handgun'.
after my Kimber, my HK is the next choice, and I rotate it through the queue regularly. I have over 15k rounds through the tube and all parts are still original and within tolerances without loss of accuracy. Their customer Service is not what I would like to see, but since I have only had to call them once, I will live with that happily.

After the Kimber and HK, my next gun in the rotation is my SA XDm. I like it, but have not got the holster I want for it yet and the XD gear that came with it is shit.

Good luck

 

[WillBrink]

All right Doc, I am not letting you off with that bell ringer! I need objective reasoning and maybe some facts! Or is this just a personal Bias! Which is fine, everyone does it!

But if you have dirt on Kimber I want to know before I go get in tomorrow!

Thanks

A few reasons, some specific some general. The good smiths I know, and the well known top level 1911 smiths, such as Hilton Yam, will tell you the fit and finish of Kimbers is often sub par. You will also see they consider the TRP one of the best out of the 1911s for the $$$. Kimber uses a Schwartz saftey. They are prone to problems, not part of the original design of the 1911, and the Kimber version has more problems then most. Again, I recommend reading articles by people such as Yam, Rogers, and others on that. A 1911 armorer in the L.E. profession recently said:

Follks me being a 1911 armorer in the L.E. profession, I've seen a lot of different 1911's coming across the bench, and keep in contact with other dept.'s that carry & use the 1911 variant.

"Within the last 2 weeks, I've seen 2 Kimber Series II's where the tip of the rod that protrudes from the frame which activates the firing pin safety, has broken off, leaving the gun unusable. What is more frightening, is that they were duty guns carried by uniformed officers.
Upon starting the first stage of the last qualification, the gun went click. After doing a tap-rack drill, it again went click. After the third time of going click, the gun was taken apart and the problem found.
The Officers were unaware of the broken part, and during this last qualification at their respective dept.'s, they found out that the gun was useless........except for a very expensive paper weight.
Both had been carrying these guns for weeks or longer in this condition. They have no idea when this may have occurred. Both said that they had fired their guns on their off time, but it had been sometime since doing it.........which means, they are unsure how long it had been..........at least a few weeks they figure. Folks, I recommend that you detail strip your Kimber series II's once in awhile and check the Schwartz parts. From what I understand, Kimber has been made aware of the problem."

Cont:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=156426

The TRP has no such firepin safety in it and uses a titanium firing pin and heavier spring to solve that "problem" with 1911s, which is actually no problem, but that's another issue..

As a general rule, those who know 1911s and carry them for potential life and death uses, will not carry one with Schwartz saftey in it. If the gun is strictly a range, IDPA gun, then it's not a major issue.

QC problems. Kimber has improved, but as I read the 1911 forums all the time, I see plenty complaints there and smiths I know who work on them tell me they are all over the place with their QC.

Cust service. All machines can break. The SA customer service is first rate, Kimber, not so much...I read complaints regularly.

MIM parts. I don't have the numbers, but Kimber uses more MIM parts then other companies vs forged or barstock. Some don't have an issue with that some do. I do. Common MIM parts on Kimbers: Slide stop, hammer, sear, disconnecter, mag catch, plunger tube, firing pin stop, thumb safety, ejector, beaver tail, mainspring housing.

I recommend taking a read of the 10-8 forums where Yam and others can be found who know more about 1911s then I ever will:

www.10-8forums.com

That's a few thoughts that come to mind why I personally will never own a Kimber product. Two, the SA TRP has probably the best reputation on the market in that price range and I wouldn't hesitate to own one. Thus, if it comes down to a TRP vs a Kimber, the TRP is an easy choice for me personally :2c:

I know some happy Kimber owners too, but that's my personal reasons why it's not a brand that interests me.

BTW, S&W uses what's a Schwartz-like system that's something between a series 80 made by Colt and a Schwartz that's been very robust, so if you were in a state, or had a job, etc that required a firing pin safety, I would chose the S&W, which for the $$$, are well made and very reliable out of the box.

 

[WillBrink]

PS, Kimber models that don't have the firepin safety is:

SIS Custom
SIS Custom/RL
Desert Warrior
Warrior

By most accounts, the Warrior is probably their best out of the box 1911.

 

[08steeda]

PS, Kimber models that don't have the firepin safety is:

SIS Custom
SIS Custom/RL
Desert Warrior
Warrior

By most accounts, the Warrior is probably their best out of the box 1911.

Thanks Will!

I will do more research and then make a decision. This is a paper/steel puncher mainly...although if I can get the right rig I might carry it from time to time (CCW). But I am not a LE am not required to carry anything.

I do have my compact carry guns so this is just to add another toy to the toy box!

I appreciate your response. I will investigate further.

FYI - I am sure there are opponents to every make , model and caliber out there. I am also sure that there are faulty weapons from every manufacturer. So the saga will continue!

Thx

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

I was thinking that same exact thought, but I was didn't want to rain on anybody's parade. Guys like the various guns. They're nice, so I totally get it.

However, for me, after all I've seen and done, I have to admit the ugly plastic gun runs amazingly well straight out of the box....and it always will. I've abused those things like you wouldn't believe. Simple, accurate, reliable, AND....(drum role, please................................................................................a fraction of the price of the other fancy guns. Which, just like you pointed out, leaves you a LOT more money for ammo.

In the end, only the buyer knows what he's REALLY after. If you want an attractive gun with a lot of effort and quality workmanship done to it, there are many to choose from. However, in a fight, they're no better than the Glock. And in many cases, they're much less reliable than the Glock, due to their tight tolerances, etc.

If anyone doubts me, take a typical fancy race gun, throw it down in the sand, bury it completely, take it out, rack the slide back and attempt to fire. Click......
Do that same thing with the Glock, and BOOM! There's the real beauty of the Glock. Cuz Lord knows it's nothing to look at... Black plastic. Still, to me it's beautiful, cuz I'm just worried about max reliability.

My 2 cents.

I agree 100% with you sawman, I trust Glock more then anything on the market today. They are far from the most accurate, but it goes bang every time you move the trigger. There is something to be said for simple and reliable. I have always said I can train a person in half the time and with half the ammo with a Glock.

A few reasons, some specific some general.

Good information Will, but something that you failed to point out is that the faulty firing pin safety is not caused by firing the pistol but by incorrect disassembly and reassembly. The pin can (and in most cases) is sheered off by trying to push the slide onto the receiver while depressing the grip safety.

I have heard of this from my local smith and the smith determined that the firing pin safety was broken due to the retard owner, jamming the slide on the receiver by banging it against the top of a desk. :doh: Needless to say once the owner explained that to the smith, the smith gave him a class on proper assembly.

Now here is something to look at and be aware of, but why dismiss a well known and widely used brand of 1911 b/c a few retards broke their own guns?

I now and old timer deputy sheriff (Comal County TX) who is a super 1911 fan, he got home late one night, went to clear his Colt 1911 (gold cup) the way he had for years. Well he racked the slide and the gun went band! He sat there looked at his bloody hand and wondered WTF? After he got fixed up at the hospital and returned to his gun, holding a baggy of brass shrapnel they took out of his hand. He examined what he did and what he was doing was holding his hand over the ejection port of the pistol, while racking the slide (in order to catch the round). His investigative conclusion was that this night he had pushed the round back in the gun and the round was set off by the ejector smashing the primer. He now is a stickler for clearing a pistol the correct way.

In the Army we refer to that as a self-correcting problem. ;)

The point is, this old man was smart enough to admit fault. Not many people will do that and want to blame the gun and or ammunition. They will even go as far as try to sue people and companies over “user error” problems. Just b/c someone says it’s this, doesn’t make it so.

Just some food for thought. Either way I think we beat this dead horse enough.:2c:

 

[08steeda]

Yep, I am going with the Kimber TC II.

I just got off the phone with a rep from Kimber and said the claims about parts made in India is not true and they CNC all their parts themselves and hand fit all the parts during assembly.

Also there are those who don't like the Firing Pin Safety. There are some advocates of it too! I like the idea that if you ever dropped the weapon and it hit the hammer it will not go BANG. I have never dropped a firearm nor do I plan to start. But this is not a life or death decision. This is as much about accuracy and aesthetics and wanting a 1911 in .45 as anything. My 2 Colt 10 mm's are awesome as well as my Colt Ace (1911 in .22).

I have other weapons that fit the zombie survival scenario, although I am not convinced that the Kimber is NOT up to that level of reliability as well.

Personally the fault of those weapons and the malfunction was Operator Error. Is it a tricky design - maybe. Is it prone to malfunction if you assemble it incorrectly - absolutly!

My brother shoots IDPA as well as some shooting leagues and ONLY uses his Kimbers. He has never had any kind of failure other than a bad magazine. We are talking about 3 different Kimbers with thousands of rounds thru each of them. Plus one of which is a full-time carry gun.

As far a Glock's go - I am a hater who does have a measure of respect for them. They are reliable. Not horribly accurate but reliable. I like a sexy looking weapon (I know silly) and the trigger is just something I have not been able to get comfortable with. Plus the weapon just does not ride in my hand comfortably with the aim-point in the desired position. I am not a big fan of any of the weapons that have that kind of grip angle - but that is because they don't seem to fit me or my hands. I am not saying they are poor weapons or unreliable.

I find the same issue with the SA XD's. Now a 1911 just comes up clean and point of aim is dead nuts - centered every time. I can literally close my eye's draw a 1911 and when I open my eye's the sights are aligned perfectly on the target.

I can't do that with a Glock. It is always slightly high.

 

[SAWMAN]

I like a sexy looking weapon (I know silly)

That's not silly at all. I totally get that. I like some guns for that reason, too. Now, if it was going to be your ONLY weapon and you needed it to fight with, that would be a different circumstance. I think there are many reasons to like guns. Looking sexy is one I happen to be able to relate to, as well as so many others.

Let us know what you end up with.

Maybe you'll even need a high-quality leather belt to carry it on. My father-in-law makes about the best I've seen and they're cheaper than the big names. He makes each one custom on your order.

www.popscustomleather.com

In fact, he's sending me a box of belts he just made for some of the operators here on the gig I'm currently working.

Don't forget to post pics of the new gun!

 

[08steeda]

Sawman - I will take a look at the belts! I love custom stuff! I like being unique!!!

Thanks

And I will post pic's as soon as I bring her home!!!

 

[Rabid Badger]

Being comfortable with a gun in your hand is all about muscle memory and building the callouses in the important spots....laymans terms...but effective.

My 92FS is a bit of a clunker and heavy and....well....heavy.... compared to Glock cheap plastic and Springfield steel....but.....I'm used to it and keyhole at 25.....and it ain't for just shooting paper.....lol....

No failures and if there were, I can break it down to steel and replace....fast...

Nothing can be compared to PRACTICE....

Shot Glock in Bdad for 3 years.....raised a nice size callous under the 2nd finger strong hand....but no misfires....

Kimber....can't say a word....best of luck...

Buy Beretta... I carry the 92 CCW everyday Va tuck and or OC when I feel like it....it ain't an ankle gun but feels mosdef comfo in the belt.... [checkin the SAWMAN 'Operator' belts out now - ~chuckles~]

You should see my newest toy....where'd that damn thread go??....

 

[08steeda]

Being comfortable with a gun in your hand is all about muscle memory and building the callouses in the important spots....laymans terms...but effective.

My 92FS is a bit of a clunker and heavy and....well....heavy.... compared to Glock cheap plastic and Springfield steel....but.....I'm used to it and keyhole at 25.....and it ain't for just shooting paper.....lol....

No failures and if there were, I can break it down to steel and replace....fast...

Nothing can be compared to PRACTICE....

Shot Glock in Bdad for 3 years.....raised a nice size callous under the 2nd finger strong hand....but no misfires....

Kimber....can't say a word....best of luck...

Buy Beretta... I carry the 92 CCW everyday Va tuck and or OC when I feel like it....it ain't an ankle gun but feels mosdef comfo in the belt.... [checkin the SAWMAN 'Operator' belts out now - ~chuckles~]

You should see my newest toy....where'd that damn thread go??....

I have 2 - 92 FS's, One is a plain Jane and the other has match barrel and 3rd Gen Block.

I also have a Cheetah in .380 from my Dad.

I love my 92's!

Those are what I used to use as an IPSC Instructor and in Matches. I have NEVER had a failure other than a couple stove pipe's. That was after thousands of rounds on original springs. Once they got replaced I have never had any problems again!

My 92's are both tack drivers and very reliable. They are actually my Go-To hardware!!!

I agree about muscle memory and practice can make any pistol comfortable. But there is also a person's natural bio mechanics and physiology that makes a huge difference.

 

[08steeda]

I am a bit of a gun whore. So for those making suggestions here is my current inventory of side-arms:

2 Beretta 92FS's 9mm
1 Beretta Cheetah .380
1 FNH Compact DaC (High-Power) 9 mm
1 Colt Gold Cup (1911) 10mm
1 Colt Delta Elite (1911) 10mm
1 Colt Ace (1911) .22
1 S&W Model 19 .357
1 S&W Model 686-6 .357
1 S&W Model 629 44 MAG
1 S&W Model 648 .22 Win Mag

 

[arizonaguide]

I'm of course partial to Springfield weapons (see avatar), and this will be my next one.
Just waiting for them (c'mon Springfield, WTF?) to make the damn thing in .45acp!!!

1 FNH Compact DaC (High-Power) 9 mm

Pictures? :cool:

 

[Rabid Badger]

I am a bit of a gun whore. So for those making suggestions here is my current inventory of side-arms:

2 Beretta 92FS's 9mm
1 Beretta Cheetah .380
1 FNH Compact DaC (High-Power) 9 mm
1 Colt Gold Cup (1911) 10mm
1 Colt Delta Elite (1911) 10mm
1 Colt Ace (1911) .22
1 S&W Model 19 .357
1 S&W Model 686-6 .357
1 S&W Model 629 44 MAG
1 S&W Model 648 .22 Win Mag

What'd I do with that 'jealous' smiley...:eek:;)

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

My 92FS is a bit of a clunker and heavy and....well....heavy.... compared to Glock cheap plastic and Springfield steel....but.....I'm used to it and keyhole at 25.....and it ain't for just shooting paper.....lol....

Yeah RB was shooting smily faces in his target, while that Peice of "SHIT" MnP was making me look a fool...:doh: ;)

The M9 is a very accurate pistol, just heavy and big. I do have to agree with the training though, if you shoot 1911's and put rounds down range every few weeks. It would make no since to switch to another platform.

 

[08steeda]

Yeah RB was shooting smily faces in his target, while that Peice of "SHIT" MnP was making me look a fool...:doh: ;)

The M9 is a very accurate pistol, just heavy and big. I do have to agree with the training though, if you shoot 1911's and put rounds down range every few weeks. It would make no since to switch to another platform.

I agree and can hit my target with just about anything out there, especially in the side-arm category. Even with a Glock. Not smiley face accurate right now. Too much travel and not enough shooting!!!

But it would not take long to get back to that level of proficiency at the range!

I should have some pic's to show tomorrow or Friday. Plus I owe AZ pic's of my FNH he keeps lusting after!

 

[lockNload]

I was thinking that same exact thought, but I was didn't want to rain on anybody's parade. Guys like the various guns. They're nice, so I totally get it.

However, for me, after all I've seen and done, I have to admit the ugly plastic gun runs amazingly well straight out of the box....and it always will. I've abused those things like you wouldn't believe. Simple, accurate, reliable, AND....(drum role, please................................................................................a fraction of the price of the other fancy guns. Which, just like you pointed out, leaves you a LOT more money for ammo.

In the end, only the buyer knows what he's REALLY after. If you want an attractive gun with a lot of effort and quality workmanship done to it, there are many to choose from. However, in a fight, they're no better than the Glock. And in many cases, they're much less reliable than the Glock, due to their tight tolerances, etc.

If anyone doubts me, take a typical fancy race gun, throw it down in the sand, bury it completely, take it out, rack the slide back and attempt to fire. Click......
Do that same thing with the Glock, and BOOM! There's the real beauty of the Glock. Cuz Lord knows it's nothing to look at... Black plastic. Still, to me it's beautiful, cuz I'm just worried about max reliability.

My 2 cents.

I've been shooting my Glock for 4 years now and love it. I agree with you about reliability. As for looks, I actually really like the styling of a Glock. I also want my gun to be "sexy" to me. Everyone has different taste. Kind of ironic what you said about 1911's when you're avatar pic has a couple of them

I had wanted a Kimber for a long time but after doing a lot of reading online about them and talking to various people I'm now skeptical. I looked at a Wilson Protector over the weekend and really liked it. Racking the slide was very smooth. However, spending $2,700 for a 1911 is a hard pill to swallow. I love my Glock and that will probably always be my primary handgun but I want some variety and like the 1911 for a change of pace. The accuracy is amazing with them. I'm pretty good with my Glock but I've shot a Kimber TLE/RL II at the range and I'm like WOW.