Orlando shooting

[Diamondback 2/2]

That's the rub.

The only problem with it is that Ben didn't foresee mass-casualty terrorism. I'm not saying we should curtail any of our BOR freedoms--not in the least--only that sometimes 18th Century laws have to be amended or updated to help counter 21st Century threats. And we have done it from time-to-time.

Exactly my thought.

Ben's administration wasn't fighting a group of people with a holy book that sets the stage for aggressive religious conflict on nearly every page.

Our enemy will use our current laws and humanity against us, sooner rather than later. Its what I'd do if I were fighting a powerhouse like the U.S.

No disrespect to either of you, but you both are wrong. Less we forget our fights with the native Americans.

The difference is we were civilized back than, but not when it came to our enemies. We were ruthless back than when fighting terrorism/insurgency style fights. And it wasn't just a Military effort, everyone got involved.

$.02

 

[DocIllinois]

No disrespect to either of you, but you both are wrong. Less we forget our fights with the native Americans.

The difference is were civilized back than, but not when it came to our enemies. We were ruthless back than when fighting terrorism/insurgency style fights. And it wasn't just a Military effort, everyone got involved.

$.02

I'm wrong in saying that our enemy will use our humanity against us when that's what they are already doing. Interesting.

We do need to become more ruthless in fighting our enemy, IMO. We may lose some of our humaneness in the process, but it must be done if we are to not see our way of life destroyed altogether.

 

[Queeg]

Why not? I don't have anything to hide?

"Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say."

 

[R.Caerbannog]

I think @Diamondback was saying that terrorism isn't a new thing, the Indian Wars and all the other small conflicts on the frontier are a pretty good indicators of our growing pains as a country. As for getting a handle on Islamic terrorism, I dunno. For the most part the military has been doing a good job of dropping bodies. However we suck at getting the public to care, apathy on that part is a huge issue for us.

Edit /add on: ditto on total engagement. These Islamic zealots are holding us back as a species.

 

[Ooh-Rah]

I'm still waiting for a Facebook American Flag profile picture to appear like they did with France. Though I suspect it won't be an American Flag but a LGBT flag instead.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

I'm wrong in saying that our enemy will use our humanity against us when that's what they are already doing. Interesting.

We do need to become more ruthless in fighting our enemy, IMO. We may lose some of our humaneness in the process, but it must be done if we are to not see our way of life destroyed altogether.

No I was saying you both are wrong about Ben Franklin not facing terrorism styled conflict during his time. Hints my comments.

Our humanity needs proper focus and definition. It's not humane to allow your own society to be killed, in order to not insult a culture or religion, who is in fact waging war against you.

But its a moot point as long as half the country wants pussyfoot around with the religion of peace, we will continue to see these types of attacks.

 

[policemedic]

I'm glad! It hasn't even been a day since the incident occurred. Remember the aftermath of Benghazi when the news media were clamoring for an explanation and the administration went with the first (incorrect) report? He was absolutely excoriated for it, and the whole affair mutated and took on a life of its own. Look if it is, in fact, Islamic terrorism, the President should say so. But he should not be beholden to the media's time standard and start popping off his mouth before the facts are in. He's done it before and it's only caused a load of asspain for the country.

I understand the point you're trying to make. No one wants POTUS or any official to put out inaccurate information.

The difference here is that where Benghazi is concerned, POTUS and SECSTATE and their minions outright lied.

 

[Gunz]

No disrespect to either of you, but you both are wrong. Less we forget our fights with the native Americans.

The difference is we were civilized back than, but not when it came to our enemies. We were ruthless back than when fighting terrorism/insurgency style fights. And it wasn't just a Military effort, everyone got involved.

$.02

I agree with your 2nd para.

Native Americans were not capable of killing in the numbers present-day terrorists are, they had no explosives, there was no threat they could get their hands on nuclear or biological weapons, they couldn't use hijacked jetliners as flying bombs. They could massacre and scalp a whole village but their weapons were tinker toys compared to what we faced on 9/11 and what we might be confronted with in the future. These motherfuckers would love to get their hands on a WMD, and I'm convinced they will get one...eventually...and when they get it they'll use it. All due respect to our brilliant Founding Fathers but they couldn't have anticipated this.

We need to find some formula that makes this country a dangerous place for terrorists without eroding our basic freedoms beyond recognition. I don't know if that's possible. In any case, we're gonna need more bodybags.

 

[Diamondback 2/2]

I agree with your 2nd para.

Native Americans were not capable of killing in the numbers present-day terrorists are, they had no explosives, there was no threat they could get their hands on nuclear or biological weapons, they couldn't use hijacked jetliners as flying bombs. They could massacre and scalp a whole village but their weapons were tinker toys compared to what we faced on 9/11 and what we might be confronted with in the future. These motherfuckers would love to get their hands on a WMD, and I'm convinced they will get one...eventually...and when they get it they'll use it. All due respect to our brilliant Founding Fathers but they couldn't have anticipated this.

We need to find some formula that makes this country a dangerous place for terrorists without eroding our basic freedoms beyond recognition. I don't know if that's possible. In any case, we're gonna need more bodybags.

I agree with WMD aspect, but the mass killings happened back than, just not on the same level. I also agree we are going to need a lot of body bags, as this is just the beginning. This shit is going to get worse and worse over the next few years.

We have to hunt them down and kill them. Hey you contact a terrorist organization or associate, you're the enemy, and will die a traitors death. Put the fear into them, that they will be caught for any contact whatsoever and publicly tried by military tribunal and executed for treason, and see how many of these guys want still be lone wolfs. After the first few are shot in town square, small town USA, see how many parents let their children hang out with extremists or social media with Ali Auk bar.

The ideology simply needs to be crushed completely overseas. ISIS, AQ, Boko, etc. Go on the hunt and wipe them out. If you associate, you die. No more nation building, no more Army building, no more negotiations with assholes, just hit them fast, hit them hard, and got them often.

 

[AWP]

Orlando mosque tied to case Hillary’s State Dept scrubbed

Someone originally sent me the above but it was linked from InfoWars and I refuse to use them as a credible source. Did some Googling and found the above site, which I am not familiar with but wanted to at least share it.

Hillary Clinton’s State Dept. shut down an investigation into the mosque Orlando killer Omar Mir Siddique Mateen attended because it “unfairly singled out Muslims.”
The Fort Pierce Islamic Center, where Mateen worshipped several times a week, was under investigation by both the FBI and DHS as early as 2011 for ties to a worldwide Islamic movement known as Tablighi Jamaal which was linked to several terrorist organizations. But the investigation was shut down under pressure from the Clinton-ran State Dept. and DHS’s Civil Rights and Civil Liberties Office out of fear of offending Muslims, according to recently retired DHS agent Philip Haney.

WND and Infowars....I'd trust neither without more mainstream coverage. Something, anything other than those two.

 

[AWP]

@Freefalling - okay. I've not heard of WND, did not know they are in the same category...more to follow if I can find a better source. <post deleted>

WND is to the right of Fox and mixes the unsubstantiated in with the sensational and actual news items. There are days when they make Fox look like HuffPo.

 

[Brill]

If we're going to say "More surveillance" then we might as well take the 4th Amendment and throw it away. After that we can do the same with the other Amendments. Screw that pesky Constitution because freedom and 'Merica.

4th or 2nd cuz we're going to have to pick on. Someone has to pay for these events so why not individual freedoms/protections?

 

[Gunz]

I agree with WMD aspect, but the mass killings happened back than, just not on the same level. I also agree we are going to need a lot of body bags, as this is just the beginning. This shit is going to get worse and worse over the next few years.

We have to hunt them down and kill them. Hey you contact a terrorist organization or associate, you're the enemy, and will die a traitors death. Put the fear into them, that they will be caught for any contact whatsoever and publicly tried by military tribunal and executed for treason, and see how many of these guys want still be lone wolfs. After the first few are shot in town square, small town USA, see how many parents let their children hang out with extremists or social media with Ali Auk bar.

The ideology simply needs to be crushed completely overseas. ISIS, AQ, Boko, etc. Go on the hunt and wipe them out. If you associate, you die. No more nation building, no more Army building, no more negotiations with assholes, just hit them fast, hit them hard, and got them often.

I think, eventually, if we're going to survive as a nation, we'll have to get proactive, like Israel...identify them, incarcerate them or kill them. Lots of violations of what our gentlemen forefathers would've considered fair play. Would it impact some freedom for the average citizen? Probably. But you bend with the breeze or you break. Israel is still a democracy. But they've found a tolerable balance between freedom and security.

 

[Marauder06]

What solution is there to lone wolf attacks? Full access to our personal life is basically it. Unless we're all going to allow that... It's going to keep happening. I'll gladly sacrifice my privacy if it saves lives.

I won't.

 

[Florida173]

It's not about more surveillance, it's about better analysts identifying indications & warnings with a CT nexus. I don't have much faith in the typical government employee to protect me.

There is so much fail involving this case that it makes me lose faith in what we can do domestically to protect people. Hit me up on PM if you have a .MIL or .GOV email

 

[AWP]

As I type this Fox News' top 5 trending stories:

1. What happened to Meg Ryan's face?
2 and 3 are related to this topic.
4. The "Nazi Titanic.
5. The Jesse Ventura/ American sniper appeal.

Meg Ryan's face... 'Merica.

 

[Brill]

It's not about more surveillance, it's about better analysts identifying indications & warnings with a CT nexus. I don't have much faith in the typical government employee to protect me.

WTF??? OOOOOOOHHHHHH...I'll be back...special at Starbucks! (turns on Out of Office in Outlook for rest of day)

 

[DocIllinois]

As I type this Fox News' top 5 trending stories:

1. What happened to Meg Ryan's face?
2 and 3 are related to this topic.
4. The "Nazi Titanic.
5. The Jesse Ventura/ American sniper appeal.

Meg Ryan's face... 'Merica.

 

[RackMaster]

Up here, all the media can talk about this horrific incident is taking our guns away and the evil AR-15. Then within the firearms community there's the whole group of tinfoil hat idiots going on about how this is a "false flag" just to take our guns away. These are the same morons that think Sandy Hook was the same and 911 was an inside job.

Why can't idiots focus on the terrorist and his terrorist buddies.

 

[Florida173]

A friend of mine's niece was at the club. Not doing so well. She got hit a few times