PTSD/Suicide on Special Operations Forces members, doubts..
- Thread starter EliasBR
- Start date
It ain't fear, it's reality.
I went for help when I realized "shit wudn't right".
I expected that they'd help identify what the problem was, and help unfuck the problem.
What happened?
Diagnosed with PTSD
attacked with stigma on all sides since then
removed from being an infantry team leader who was being "groomed" to relieve a squad leader immediately upon deployment in-country
removed from my infantry company altogether and put in rear-d with a metric pile of non-hacking shitbags
ostracized from my unit
been called weak by brothers in arms from SOF and a downright coward by fucks with no deployments who weren't deploying and they should thank the medication I was on then for not being murdered with their office desk
Got discharged from the Army with a week to clear post/ACAP/etc
Multiple job applications post-service replied with "LOLNO"
People see a dude that got BTFU/Shot and has a claw for a hand, or a limp from shrapnel or some shit, and there's a scar and visible reason they are limited however they are.
With PTSD, it's an invisible round you can't armor for, can't train to avoid, and like a mortar blast, misses everyone and hits one guy who was standing right next to you... or misses everyone and hits you. You're jacked up with no physical reason for it, people can't understand what it does to you other than what you tell them, they can't relate any experiences to it. That gives them apparent free reign to go full retard.
I'd trade my PTSD for a hand in a heartbeat, but I'd flip the script and be taking David Sarif to school with what I'd interface with my nub. Imagine a prosthetic hand with a bayonet lug that also incorporates a laser rangefinder, GPS, Broadband communications suite, jacks into networks with a punch-spike and as a final touch makes any Apple products within a 100m radius only play Rick Astley.
I went for help when I realized "shit wudn't right".
I expected that they'd help identify what the problem was, and help unfuck the problem.
What happened?
Diagnosed with PTSD
attacked with stigma on all sides since then
removed from being an infantry team leader who was being "groomed" to relieve a squad leader immediately upon deployment in-country
removed from my infantry company altogether and put in rear-d with a metric pile of non-hacking shitbags
ostracized from my unit
been called weak by brothers in arms from SOF and a downright coward by fucks with no deployments who weren't deploying and they should thank the medication I was on then for not being murdered with their office desk
Got discharged from the Army with a week to clear post/ACAP/etc
Multiple job applications post-service replied with "LOLNO"
People see a dude that got BTFU/Shot and has a claw for a hand, or a limp from shrapnel or some shit, and there's a scar and visible reason they are limited however they are.
With PTSD, it's an invisible round you can't armor for, can't train to avoid, and like a mortar blast, misses everyone and hits one guy who was standing right next to you... or misses everyone and hits you. You're jacked up with no physical reason for it, people can't understand what it does to you other than what you tell them, they can't relate any experiences to it. That gives them apparent free reign to go full retard.
I'd trade my PTSD for a hand in a heartbeat, but I'd flip the script and be taking David Sarif to school with what I'd interface with my nub. Imagine a prosthetic hand with a bayonet lug that also incorporates a laser rangefinder, GPS, Broadband communications suite, jacks into networks with a punch-spike and as a final touch makes any Apple products within a 100m radius only play Rick Astley.
Within weeks of returning for OJC, I went to see a shrink on main post. I did what I thought was the right thing, considering what I was thinking and going through. I told nobody that I was going.
I told the shrink that I knew I was wrong for thinking the way that I was, and that was why I needed to get shit off of my chest. After my "session" I went straight back to the barracks. Within minutes of my arrival, I was called to the carpet by my CO.
Your damned if you do, and you are damned if you don't. Back then, PTSD wasn't an acknowledged "issue" in the military. I never talked about ANYTHING ever again while I was in uniform...........................with ANYONE.
While you are in uniform, keep that shit to yourself unless you want them to kick you out. Dressing and acting like Clinger on Mash no longer does the trick. hahaha
I told the shrink that I knew I was wrong for thinking the way that I was, and that was why I needed to get shit off of my chest. After my "session" I went straight back to the barracks. Within minutes of my arrival, I was called to the carpet by my CO.
Your damned if you do, and you are damned if you don't. Back then, PTSD wasn't an acknowledged "issue" in the military. I never talked about ANYTHING ever again while I was in uniform...........................with ANYONE.
While you are in uniform, keep that shit to yourself unless you want them to kick you out. Dressing and acting like Clinger on Mash no longer does the trick. hahaha
Going to agree 100% with RP on this one (probably the first time ever) but I think he hit the nail on the head with how the Army deals with PTSD, especially in combat vets who have LOD’s from actual combat ops, etc.
There is no secret to me, I originally was sent to the Warrior Transition Unit (fancy name for med hold) for a neck & back injury. I went through all the process, one of them being a mental health screening. I was flagged due to some stuff that happened on my first deployment, not from the current deployment I was returning from. But I was evaluated and given a diagnoses of sever PTSD, mild to severe anxiety and moderate depression. After I was diagnosed I received no further care outside of a mandatory social work screening every 90 days and put on a few different medications, that seem to change every 6 months.
When I went through my MEB, the primary reason I was being found unfit for duty was the PTSD. Believe it or not, I was going to get a Return to Duty all the way up to the point I had to clear mental health again for the MEB. Basically, the cocksuckers told me that I could not be armed, and that I could not conduct any live fire training of any kind. Kind of hard to be an Infantryman without a weapon…oh wait…nope you can’t even be a soldier if you can’t qual with a weapon (unless I become real religious and go the crazy x-infantry Chaplin route).
Do I suffer from PTSD, honestly I don’t really know. I have had many things pointed out by family, friends and fellow soldiers. Do I have dreams; sure, is it enough to effect my daily life…not at all. The biggest problem I have is that my BullShit meter is pegged at max and has been since my brothers were killed over some dumbass cocksucking fagget ass Btn commander refusing to listen to the man on the ground. Or maybe it was one of the many events where it easier for company commander to allow his joes to face a 15-6 investigation instead of manning the fuck up and saying “they were doing what I told them to do” and I can go on and on, but the point is the same, I have no time for stupid anymore.
The part that kills me the most about how stupid the Army actually is, is that I trained soldier to shoot on a live fire range for 2.5 years after that first deployment, deployed to Iraq a second time carried a weapon the whole fucking time (never needing to fire a round outside of check zeros) and own way more guns then I need. And the Army in all of its wisdom still put me out b/c they don’t want me touching those bad weapons….I mean fucking really out of all the PTSD having soldier running around Fort Hood Texas, the only one to go on a mass killing spree is the only soldier who has yet to deploy, and a Army psychologist to boot…..You guys remember that fuck-nugget terrorist they still have yet to sentence (Major Hassan).
I remember hearing that they believed that fucking terrorist was suffering from PTSD that he had acquired through the treatment of actual combat vet, yeah PTSD is being dealt with real fucking well by the Army….fucking idiots.
I can’t talk for the SOF side of the house, but in the CF side, well combat arms side, PTSD is joked about while hanging around the smoke shack, never actually talked about in any seriousness until after a soldier has broken down, or is on the way off the cliff. Any of the HSLD soldiers are normally not going to come right out and say “hey I have a problem with my nugget” where in most cases the LSHD soldiers are using it as a way out of the Army/another deployment. Some simply get caught in the mix by accident and some actually believe that stupid shit they say in those briefs that “it won’t hurt your career and you will get the help you need” fucking right.
There is no secret to me, I originally was sent to the Warrior Transition Unit (fancy name for med hold) for a neck & back injury. I went through all the process, one of them being a mental health screening. I was flagged due to some stuff that happened on my first deployment, not from the current deployment I was returning from. But I was evaluated and given a diagnoses of sever PTSD, mild to severe anxiety and moderate depression. After I was diagnosed I received no further care outside of a mandatory social work screening every 90 days and put on a few different medications, that seem to change every 6 months.
When I went through my MEB, the primary reason I was being found unfit for duty was the PTSD. Believe it or not, I was going to get a Return to Duty all the way up to the point I had to clear mental health again for the MEB. Basically, the cocksuckers told me that I could not be armed, and that I could not conduct any live fire training of any kind. Kind of hard to be an Infantryman without a weapon…oh wait…nope you can’t even be a soldier if you can’t qual with a weapon (unless I become real religious and go the crazy x-infantry Chaplin route).
Do I suffer from PTSD, honestly I don’t really know. I have had many things pointed out by family, friends and fellow soldiers. Do I have dreams; sure, is it enough to effect my daily life…not at all. The biggest problem I have is that my BullShit meter is pegged at max and has been since my brothers were killed over some dumbass cocksucking fagget ass Btn commander refusing to listen to the man on the ground. Or maybe it was one of the many events where it easier for company commander to allow his joes to face a 15-6 investigation instead of manning the fuck up and saying “they were doing what I told them to do” and I can go on and on, but the point is the same, I have no time for stupid anymore.
The part that kills me the most about how stupid the Army actually is, is that I trained soldier to shoot on a live fire range for 2.5 years after that first deployment, deployed to Iraq a second time carried a weapon the whole fucking time (never needing to fire a round outside of check zeros) and own way more guns then I need. And the Army in all of its wisdom still put me out b/c they don’t want me touching those bad weapons….I mean fucking really out of all the PTSD having soldier running around Fort Hood Texas, the only one to go on a mass killing spree is the only soldier who has yet to deploy, and a Army psychologist to boot…..You guys remember that fuck-nugget terrorist they still have yet to sentence (Major Hassan).
I remember hearing that they believed that fucking terrorist was suffering from PTSD that he had acquired through the treatment of actual combat vet, yeah PTSD is being dealt with real fucking well by the Army….fucking idiots.
I can’t talk for the SOF side of the house, but in the CF side, well combat arms side, PTSD is joked about while hanging around the smoke shack, never actually talked about in any seriousness until after a soldier has broken down, or is on the way off the cliff. Any of the HSLD soldiers are normally not going to come right out and say “hey I have a problem with my nugget” where in most cases the LSHD soldiers are using it as a way out of the Army/another deployment. Some simply get caught in the mix by accident and some actually believe that stupid shit they say in those briefs that “it won’t hurt your career and you will get the help you need” fucking right.
I'm personally and professionally associated with several men who have been diagnosed with PTSD. I had no idea one of them was in treatment and has been for sometime. He had five total deployments including Desert Storm and was one of the first into Kuwait city as a SOF / DA unit, he is highly decorated to include Valor awards. He refused treatment, wouldn't acknowledge the problem until his wife intervened and went to the VA and his command. Still he hides this and won't tell people about this for fear of being thought of as a coward. He is a close friend, good father, honorable man and a warrior. I make no determination of conditions. I'm not a doctor and I'm certainly not qualified to pass judgement on persons. It seems there are folks who are manipulating the system for personal gain. However we have allot of SF / SOF Vets who have been deployed too much, stretched mentally beyond the norms of expectations and used up. Our nation is now too dependent on too few to do too much and continually do their biding because we have a society of parasites and slugs who refuse to serve our great nation and the greater good. Hence the drastic increase in this condition and the constant ever use of good men and women.
With deepest respect
With deepest respect
After being asked by my family numerous times to go to the VABHC upon ETSing, I went. Was told PTSD symptoms but was diagnosed with Hyper Vigilance stemming from my deployment to OIF1 as a major benefactor and OEF as a secondary. I opened up about experiences on security details when I was with 101st, they were like "I thought you said you were a 71L?", I was like "where does it say in the deployment orders must be MOS specific?". I was tasked out with Civil Affairs, put on guard duty many times, provided convoy security for the divisional staff...... I still have not opened up much on the OEF deployment when I was with 160th, watched a lot of screens......ditto.......
I had reminded the counselor at VABHC that many guys will not speak of their experiences even if the information is deemed confidential for them. The NDA was signed sealed and filed for those that are still active and those no longer serving, they will remain under lock and key if it pertains to mission specifics.
Not much can be said for my buddy, as a medic he saw his fair share and the shrapnel to prove it. When J returned, he was a totally different person but just sucked it up and moved forward. I have other buddies that would rather BS on the phone and kick back a few beers with locals than go to the behavioral health center. Sometimes there are other stressors in a Soldiers life that can act as a trigger. Key point to this discussion is that it is present in SOF just not talked about much. A key phrase I remember "embrace the suck", most Soldiers self treat through other means. For the NCOs in the line units, keep your eyes open and be a role model to your Joes.
I had reminded the counselor at VABHC that many guys will not speak of their experiences even if the information is deemed confidential for them. The NDA was signed sealed and filed for those that are still active and those no longer serving, they will remain under lock and key if it pertains to mission specifics.
Not much can be said for my buddy, as a medic he saw his fair share and the shrapnel to prove it. When J returned, he was a totally different person but just sucked it up and moved forward. I have other buddies that would rather BS on the phone and kick back a few beers with locals than go to the behavioral health center. Sometimes there are other stressors in a Soldiers life that can act as a trigger. Key point to this discussion is that it is present in SOF just not talked about much. A key phrase I remember "embrace the suck", most Soldiers self treat through other means. For the NCOs in the line units, keep your eyes open and be a role model to your Joes.
My instructor talked about his IA deployment to Iraq (as a Phalanx/CIWS tech) and what it did to him. He came back and was diagnosed with PTSD, not because of what he saw, but because of the heightened sense of awareness/don't trust anyone mind frame that most people over there operate with. He said the "on-edge paranoia" didn't wear off once he was back in the states and certain things he would hear or experience would bring back that feeling.
This is me relating his story with my words, not his. I'm paraphrasing what he told us. Not sure if anyone else has had experiences like this, but just thought I'd contribute.
Land based CIWS:
This is me relating his story with my words, not his. I'm paraphrasing what he told us. Not sure if anyone else has had experiences like this, but just thought I'd contribute.
Land based CIWS:
I can't speak for other services but back when I was fleet side Marine Corps this shit was pounded into our brain housing group constantly. We were highly encouraged to seek assistance after Post-DHAs, they were discussed during Pre-DHAs, and were brought up during any medical visit.
I've seen guys range in all categories. Some in the deep end currently getting assistance, others you'd never know until you were having a conversation with them and something came up from the past, you just knew it was eating at them based on how they were responding. You'd also kind of pin it to his actions/reactions (emotionally) the last few days or you'd hear his responses in discussions and you'd know then too.
As Ranger Psych mentioned earlier in the thread - you spend years with some people and you know immediately when they're having that moment. Thats the way it seemed most of the time, a bad moment, then on with life. This was also very infrequent, it never really sparked up until a guy at our unit's funeral service reunion was threatened by the WBC at Arlington. Then he had a bad few weeks but it never affected his performance. After that - same guy I've known for a while now and he's doing fine still (I assume). He's also the best platoon sergeant I've ever served with.
SOF side, in my current pipeline there's a particular CSO from 1st who is phenomenal on all levels. Constantly stands out, even among other studs and is truly dominating the full spectrum of our curriculum/course/evals. Prior to his 72 MOS he was a mortars guy with 1/5. Truly has a deep end mentality PTSD wise once in a while but I think that's because he'll suppress it for so long. There's so much shit to do 25, 50, and a 100 meters out for him that I'm almost positive he just ignores the feelings and keeps moving. I've had him over my house a few times for Barbeques and what not but you'll never notice. I've never personally witnessed him have his moment, but one of our friends has and he said it was fairly difficult to control the situation.
I'm certain the PTSD situation is different for everyone. People have perspectives and outlooks on things/events/subjects that are unique to them which will dictate how that individual is affected. No situation traumatic or common is excluded from this rule.
Finally, I'll mention that I'm sure there are many more undiagnosed cases than what we (government wise) are aware of or even capable of detecting. Under that circumstance and even the diagnosed cases, many people who experience PTSD go on to live with it for the rest of their days and will usually overcome the effects by tailoring their lifestyle and the things they do to their awareness of the situation. Regardless I generally look down on those who pass judgment on those who are willing to put their ego aside and seek help despite the douchelord criticism they may receive from particular "individuals." While this event isn't very common, it happens enough to mention... another difficulty I'll chalk up to those who have to deal with this on a daily bases.
BTW skrewz that shit looks really badass.
I've seen guys range in all categories. Some in the deep end currently getting assistance, others you'd never know until you were having a conversation with them and something came up from the past, you just knew it was eating at them based on how they were responding. You'd also kind of pin it to his actions/reactions (emotionally) the last few days or you'd hear his responses in discussions and you'd know then too.
As Ranger Psych mentioned earlier in the thread - you spend years with some people and you know immediately when they're having that moment. Thats the way it seemed most of the time, a bad moment, then on with life. This was also very infrequent, it never really sparked up until a guy at our unit's funeral service reunion was threatened by the WBC at Arlington. Then he had a bad few weeks but it never affected his performance. After that - same guy I've known for a while now and he's doing fine still (I assume). He's also the best platoon sergeant I've ever served with.
SOF side, in my current pipeline there's a particular CSO from 1st who is phenomenal on all levels. Constantly stands out, even among other studs and is truly dominating the full spectrum of our curriculum/course/evals. Prior to his 72 MOS he was a mortars guy with 1/5. Truly has a deep end mentality PTSD wise once in a while but I think that's because he'll suppress it for so long. There's so much shit to do 25, 50, and a 100 meters out for him that I'm almost positive he just ignores the feelings and keeps moving. I've had him over my house a few times for Barbeques and what not but you'll never notice. I've never personally witnessed him have his moment, but one of our friends has and he said it was fairly difficult to control the situation.
I'm certain the PTSD situation is different for everyone. People have perspectives and outlooks on things/events/subjects that are unique to them which will dictate how that individual is affected. No situation traumatic or common is excluded from this rule.
Finally, I'll mention that I'm sure there are many more undiagnosed cases than what we (government wise) are aware of or even capable of detecting. Under that circumstance and even the diagnosed cases, many people who experience PTSD go on to live with it for the rest of their days and will usually overcome the effects by tailoring their lifestyle and the things they do to their awareness of the situation. Regardless I generally look down on those who pass judgment on those who are willing to put their ego aside and seek help despite the douchelord criticism they may receive from particular "individuals." While this event isn't very common, it happens enough to mention... another difficulty I'll chalk up to those who have to deal with this on a daily bases.
BTW skrewz that shit looks really badass.
Iteach- I appreciate your enthusiasm, but we probably don't need a brand-new user with fewer than a dozen posts to correct the behavior of another junior member in a thread that spans 4 pages of posts and was last active almost a year ago. We have a staff and many seasoned members who can handle discipline on the site, posts like what you made tend to only inflame the situation and create problems where none need exist. Thanks.
LogDog0402
Verified Military
I wanted to add my PTSD experience to this thread. I was just recently diagnosed with PTSD by the VA due to hyper vigilance and anxiety. I wasn't involved in any type of blast or heavy combat although my team did have a few pop shots taken at us by the Jordanians and Syrians (you read that right, also we weren't allowed to return fire). My biggest issue has been that I can't shake the feeling of when I walk into any room that I develop a plan of if shit hits the fan who do I kill first, what are the best exits and things of that nature. I also have had panic attacks when walking into a bank or an open air mall like in San Diego. Basically I panic because I don't have my weapons and so I have to stop and remind myself that I am in the US not Iraq. These are really just reminders of situations that should have gone horribly wrong. Try telling a group of Iraqi Bankers that you need to take the money(large amount) they just seized and see how far you get.
Do I think I suffer from PTSD? Not really but my wife has pointed out things that I have done that made me finally go to the VA and talk to someone. My favorite thing that she pointed out that I did was that we had a knock on our door one night and I answered the door while holding a large knife behind my back. I find this funny because I didn't even realize I did that until she pointed it out after the person at the door had left. I share this because maybe it will help someone else that has it worse than me.
I think Ranger Psych had the best post about how SOF is better equipped to deal with PTSD because of the nature of being with the same group for years. I can relate because I deployed with 10 other Marines and we were embeded with Iraqi forces. Our teams were modeled after ODAs. We had years of SOF type training, mainly UW and TCCC, crammed into four months and then an eight month deployment. Most of our training was conducted by 18Ds for TCCC and former Green Berets for UW. The whole point was to change out mindset from "close with and destroy" to "train, mentor and advise". I did that cycle for two years and there was a real brotherhood established but at the end the team was broken up and we went back to our normal Marine Corps jobs. My point here is that all of a sudden that small group was taken away and we were reinserted into the regular Marine Corps where very few understood what we did. I can foresee current CSOs in MARSOC having a similar ordeal when they transition back to a regular Marine unit. I know an old roommate of mine is trying to get back to MARSOC ASAP because he hates being back in a regular unit now.
Do I think I suffer from PTSD? Not really but my wife has pointed out things that I have done that made me finally go to the VA and talk to someone. My favorite thing that she pointed out that I did was that we had a knock on our door one night and I answered the door while holding a large knife behind my back. I find this funny because I didn't even realize I did that until she pointed it out after the person at the door had left. I share this because maybe it will help someone else that has it worse than me.
I think Ranger Psych had the best post about how SOF is better equipped to deal with PTSD because of the nature of being with the same group for years. I can relate because I deployed with 10 other Marines and we were embeded with Iraqi forces. Our teams were modeled after ODAs. We had years of SOF type training, mainly UW and TCCC, crammed into four months and then an eight month deployment. Most of our training was conducted by 18Ds for TCCC and former Green Berets for UW. The whole point was to change out mindset from "close with and destroy" to "train, mentor and advise". I did that cycle for two years and there was a real brotherhood established but at the end the team was broken up and we went back to our normal Marine Corps jobs. My point here is that all of a sudden that small group was taken away and we were reinserted into the regular Marine Corps where very few understood what we did. I can foresee current CSOs in MARSOC having a similar ordeal when they transition back to a regular Marine unit. I know an old roommate of mine is trying to get back to MARSOC ASAP because he hates being back in a regular unit now.
If you have PTSD, then 99% of the men I know and many of the women also have PTSD. Sounds to me like you just have awareness; that "thing" that kept our ancestors from getting eaten by dinosaurs.
pardus
Verified Military
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I recently spoke to a guy I deployed with, he told me he'd been diagnosed with PTSD. I asked him how that was possible, he told me that the VA basically forced it upon him through a series of questions. "Are you having trouble sleeping? Have you had a panic attack since you got back? Have you been more alert since you got back?" PTSD... Next!
LogDog0402
Verified Military
Yes, this is exactly how it went for me. They talk with you for about 30-45 minutes, ask if you want to take meds, and suggest group therapy. I just went to a group session the other day and it wasn't too bad but I'm blowing off the next one to play in a hockey tournament for "old" men.
LibraryLady
Verified Military
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- 5,071
Pardon my cynicism about the VA, but remember they have to justify the dinero they receive. PTSD is the new "in" thing at the VA that gives them a ton of money.
I've been dealing with them for 20+ years. Everytime I came in for an appt I would have to answer the same barrage of questions about sexual harassment - that covered me from the early 80's through the early 2000's.
Now they ask about PTSD. The questions are essentially the same questions. So I give the same answers. Many times I've been tempted to tape record my answers.
More than once I've asked how come they keep asking them. "In case you change your mind about talking about it." WTF? I guess they assume it happened to me and I'm just in denial. :wall:
LL
I've been dealing with them for 20+ years. Everytime I came in for an appt I would have to answer the same barrage of questions about sexual harassment - that covered me from the early 80's through the early 2000's.
Now they ask about PTSD. The questions are essentially the same questions. So I give the same answers. Many times I've been tempted to tape record my answers.
More than once I've asked how come they keep asking them. "In case you change your mind about talking about it." WTF? I guess they assume it happened to me and I'm just in denial. :wall:
LL
Some people are. It took one of my sisters 15 years to talk about what happened to her, and then only at the urging of another girl who had the same thing happen to her, by the same person. Sad world when you can't even trust a church youth pastor.
pardus
Verified Military
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I guess it's not just people trying to take advantage of the system then, the system is taking advantage of itself. A self feeding bureaucracy. That can't be bad right?
LogDog0402
Verified Military
I guess it's not just people trying to take advantage of the system then, the system is taking advantage of itself. A self feeding bureaucracy. That can't be bad right?
The way I look at it, if they are going to diagnose you with PTSD or anything else then you need to file a claim and get paid for it. I haven't filed yet because it might affect me joining the NG. It might affect me already, not sure on this. I'm good either way but I have realized that I miss my team and wish we could have done a few more deployments together, those were great days.
pardus
Verified Military
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I was warned that EVERYTHING going to/through the VA is accessible by the Military. In a time of downsizing (IMO) anyone being flagged as a psych case is going to get fucked (or risks a very good chance of). I would be very careful indeed about what you let get into your file (at least while you still intend to serve). That's not to mention the possible gun ownership issues if you're are diagnosed as a psych case by the US GOVT.
Feeling a warm and fuzzy yet? Me neither...
